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  1. #501
    Member Sdasurrey's Avatar
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    Elgin - Trench Watches of the Great War - WRUW

    Quote Originally Posted by HOROLOGIST007 View Post
    One test is better than no test.

    and I concur


    Adam
    One test sample statistically = no test statistically

    EDIT - actually I will correct myself - a 'sample' can be interpreted as more than one outcome out of many outcomes when undertaking statistical tests of significance - to statistically 'generalise' from any sample of outcomes to a broader population of outcomes so......corrected as follows:

    'A single test outcome out of many used in a statistical test = no statistical test of any significance' - therefore it's not generalisable ....

    SDA


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    Last edited by Sdasurrey; October 21st, 2015 at 21:58.
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  2. #502
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    Re: Elgin - Trench Watches of the Great War - WRUW

    Here is mine a Elgin with a Pershing dial. On the back of the case was scratched 29th Div. they were trained in 1917 and went to France 1918 from the serial number on movement the watch was made in 1918 so this was used in WW1 and mite of been a issued watch. The 29th was known as the Blue and Gray div. Cool I was able to find one that was used in the great war.


    ~[URL=http://s370.photobucket.com/user/riverratone/media/DSCN1143_zpshqzh8trc.jpg.html][/URL

    ~[URL=http://s370.photobucket.com/user/riverratone/media/DSCN1099_zps1cvssp9a.jpg.html][/URL
    bobbee, radger, Case61 and 1 others like this.

  3. #503
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: Elgin - Trench Watches of the Great War - WRUW

    You certainly were.

    Thanks for sharing
    adam
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

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  5. #504
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    Re: Elgin - Trench Watches of the Great War - WRUW

    Quote Originally Posted by river rat View Post
    Here is mine a Elgin with a Pershing dial. On the back of the case was scratched 29th Div. they were trained in 1917 and went to France 1918 from the serial number on movement the watch was made in 1918 so this was used in WW1 and mite of been a issued watch. The 29th was known as the Blue and Gray div. Cool I was able to find one that was used in the great war.


    ~[URL=http://s370.photobucket.com/user/riverratone/media/DSCN1143_zpshqzh8trc.jpg.html][/URL

    ~[URL=http://s370.photobucket.com/user/riverratone/media/DSCN1099_zps1cvssp9a.jpg.html][/URL



    Beautiful watch RR, looks like you have the "Foch" model.

    March 1919 advert.





    Name:  1919 march.jpg
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    Here is your model on the wrist!





    Name:  1919 march11.jpg
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    Last edited by bobbee; October 21st, 2015 at 18:46.
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  6. #505
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    Re: Elgin - Trench Watches of the Great War - WRUW

    Quote Originally Posted by simpletreasures View Post
    Let me see if I'm understanding this correctly..........................

    Stan had 1 speck on 1case tested through a lab, the lab reports said that the results on "that ONE case" were paint?

    Stan then concludes that all those finishes are paint?

    Sorry, doesn't sound scientific or conclusive to me.

    I've (somewhat) enjoyed reading this thread, with the exception of the name calling or hissy fits. I think some very good work has been done, and some questions have been raised. I'm looking forward to being able to read more, as it's discovered.


    An interesting topic which has turned into quite a sorry saga internet wide.

    Bobbee, despite the attacks from self congratulating specialists, has kept a clear
    head and stuck to the facts, the facts have prevailed.

    It started months ago when a solid silver (not nickel) U.S trench watch was posted in this forum.
    It had a quite obvious NATURAL black oxidised layer.

    The poster, Literrustyfan, swore blind it was painted....he had secret information which proved this was paint
    and when pressed said that he had seen 'original' factory painted solid silver trench watches.

    We have yet to see one of these 'original painted solid silver' trench watches.

    It was this inability to discern a naturally oxidized finish from a chemically oxidized or a painted finish which
    seems to have elevated this discussion into horological hyperspace resulting in expensive mass spectrometry
    tests and all sorts of other nonsense.

    These Nickel Depollier waterproof watches were supplied with an oxidized finish, I've no doubt. All the evidence
    points to it and over time more examples with the remains of the original finish will appear, the specialists will
    have egg on their face because of their intransigent stance.

  7. #506
    Member simpletreasures's Avatar
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    Re: Elgin - Trench Watches of the Great War - WRUW

    Adam,

    A couple of weeks ago the NAWCC Museum and I decided to send out the museum's Depollier Waterproof Case with the black finish for independent laboratory testing.[/QUOTE]

    This is the first statement that Stan himself posted in his thread on the NAWCC forum, it's what led me to believe what I stated in my last post.

    So if I'm mistaken in that it wasn't a assertion that Stan was making, should I assume that the NAWCC is wrong in this limited testing?
    Last edited by simpletreasures; October 22nd, 2015 at 00:21.
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  8. #507
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: Elgin - Trench Watches of the Great War - WRUW

    Sorry, I don't understand your meaning to below:
    should I assume that the NAWCC is wrong in this limited testing?
    wrong? What you meany by wrong. NAWCC tested one case to confirm if it was painted or oxidized, and the result was painted with no signs of previous treatment (oxidization)

    NAWCC owns the watch and the full laboratory tests - they are NOT Stans, and the Museum will share them with any legitimate person.

    On yours and others claims that "its limited" or "not statistical" - well its the ONLY to date scientifically tests done, and of course people can make their own conclusion.
    I made mine based on that test and all the other painted pieces I have seen, touched and contained in the Museum.

    I am not forcing anyone else to accept my conclusion, but I have a right to voice it.
    NOTE OF CLARITY:
    What the "museums" conclusion to this can only be expressed by the Museum director. I, Stan others are purely expressing their own conclusion. None of us represent the Museum in this.


    Adam
    Last edited by HOROLOGIST007; October 22nd, 2015 at 01:32.
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

  9. #508
    Vint. Forum Co-Moderator Mirius's Avatar
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    Elgin - Trench Watches of the Great War - WRUW

    I would advise and remind all members that further stirring, allusions and comments referring to other members will not be tolerated.

    Some excellent points have been made and discussed in this thread. There is no need to make them personal.
    busmatt likes this.


  10. #509
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    Re: Elgin - Trench Watches of the Great War - WRUW

    Great watch!

    This is one of the two known cases that was accepted by the United States Army in 1918.

    It's an "OreSilver" case that was made by Joseph Fahys & Company.

    Semi-Hermetic (threaded) case with nice and wide 16mm lugs.




    This is the other known case that was used by the United States Army in 1918.

    Made by the Illinois Watch Case Company, semi-hermetic case design, Nickel, the case threading on this version is a bit better than the one on the Fahys model, the threading is just a little bit deeper & thicker.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Author of "Elgin Trench Watches of the Great War" & "Waltham Trench Watches of the Great War"

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  11. #510
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: Elgin - Trench Watches of the Great War - WRUW

    What is that lume dot on the eagles head??
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

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