EPIC - Job Lot Arrival.... 9/10 running... Swiss, Russian and German! INFO needed

Thread: EPIC - Job Lot Arrival.... 9/10 running... Swiss, Russian and German! INFO needed

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  1. #1
    Member Sparcster's Avatar
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    Question EPIC - Job Lot Arrival.... 9/10 running... Swiss, Russian and German! INFO needed

    Hi Guys,

    Following on from this thread https://forums.watchuseek.com/f11/ano...em-595244.html the watches arrived today....






    I would like to think there are a few gems in here... I have broken them down into 'lots'... I have not cleaned or done anything to them yet... But all seem to be running/keeping time/setting apart from 1!

    On Average, Each watch cost me £23... so some are ok buys... some may be very good buys!

    First - Poljot Alarm watches... I say Poljot, I cant make out what 1 (in Russian) says....

    They both look like the Poljot 2612 Cal

    bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: Poljot 2612

    Not sure on the age... think they are nearer 1960 than 1990... unsure though.. thoughts on age welcome???

    Pics (not that pretty)













    Next! The Poljot Autos.... These are quite interesting... 2 (with date) are 2416 cal and the other is 2415.... I say these are interesting, as the Auto system is built into the movement, instead of a variation on a handwind... But Roland (as always)describes it better..

    bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: Poljot 2416


    One thing Roland says 'low volume production' which makes me think...... what is meant by low? As I have 3!

    anyway... pics......














    Last of the Poljots...... 23 jewel handwind with 'Luch' 2209 cal movement... using the dates on Rolands site, I can date it to 1975-79....

    bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: Luch 2209


    Pics......









    Next... The GUB and Solida Ancre? These are the 2 that have me most excited...








    The Gub! Seems to be in nice condition... running well.... as for the movement... It seems to be signed '62'... looking at the pink pages for a guide... there is a GUB 60 and GUB 63.... So assume this is a GUB 62.... thoughts welcome one that... Along with age?









    The Solida Ancre... Again (pics dont do it justice) in good condition... Looks like the movement has been picked at... But Im not sure of the Cal... The only other one I can find, is described as a ETA... cant make out whats under the balance - anyone got any thoughts??? and Date... 30s/40s? There are some dinks on the back... just where something is written... says something like:


    R (pic of anchor) W within a shield... then - BoGen (not sure on the 'G')???? Then 'rosttreter Stahl'













    Now... if you have made it this far... well done... we are nearly there!!

    Lanco and Revue

    Im not sure on either of the movement... Lanco is running - slow! and the revue is not... The stem/crown does not seem right... It does set, and manually winding it a bit... it does tick for a while (not long).. Info on these welcome!!













    Now, I realise there is a lot of info here... but any info on any of the watch will be greatfully received - Especially on the last 4!!

    Thanks guys... sorry its such an epic Thread... but think of me... to me 2 hour (including pics) to do

    Thanks for any help....

    Marc
    A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away...

    Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    Twitter: quickpicmarc

  2. #2
    Member trim's Avatar
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    Re: EPIC - Job Lot Arrival.... 9/10 running... Swiss, Russian and German! INFO needed

    Pity someone has removed the centre seconds mechanism on the Lanco.

    Looks like a good haul in all. I do like that Solida, I believe that symbol is the case maker - but no time to look up as off to work. I am sure Mike or Roland can say straight off.

    K.

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    Member joeuk's Avatar
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    Re: EPIC - Job Lot Arrival.... 9/10 running... Swiss, Russian and German! INFO needed

    Just had a quick read as I am eating at the moment in Rome , but those alarm watches are rubbish and I feel sorry for you so I will at least take one off your hands lol

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  5. #4
    Zenith Forum Co-moderator
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    Re: EPIC - Job Lot Arrival.... 9/10 running... Swiss, Russian and German! INFO needed

    The Solida Anker probably has the symbol of the case maker on the bottom: RoWi (Rodi & Wienenberger, Pforzheim, Germany). The rest probably reads "Boden Rostfreier Stahl" which means "Case back stainless steel". Presumably the rest is plated brass then. The movement is indeed an ETA calibre, something from the ETA 810 family:

    bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: ETA 810

    Hartmut Richter

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    Re: EPIC - Job Lot Arrival.... 9/10 running... Swiss, Russian and German! INFO needed

    Sparcster,

    I noticed that eBay listing too, but decided not to go for it because of the non-Russian watches there! Being a collector of Russian watches I would not have a clue what to do with them

    Anyway I will try to describe the Russian ones the best I can. But to start with: The firm of 1MWF - along with other Russian firms - had the habit of giving different watch families (generally based on movements) individual names, but after 1966 they decided to adopt Poljot as the umbrella brand. For collectors and historians we still refer to movements by the name of the watches in which they first appeared.

    The first group of pictures of the two alarms is a fine example: the name "Signal", as the left one is signed, puts it prior to 1966, and the one on the left puts it later than that. I am no expert in early Signals, but I am aware that totally original ones are rather difficult to find nowadays, many are with reproduction dials and wrong hands.

    Then the second group are the Poljot 29-jewel automatics, on which I am quite keen: here is a thread I started a little while ago. The no-date version was the 2415 "Orbita" and the date version was the 2416 "Kosmos". Starting with the one in the middle, it is a second model Kosmos with date window rather thna pointer date, in an older-style "stepped case": the second hand is not original and appears to be from a Vostok, and the crown does not look right. I have some misgivings about the one on the right as the case looks too new compared to the dial and hands. The Orbita on the left is later than the one in the middle as it has the later round case without the step and the "Poljot-look" dial but the hands appear to be from a much later model as they are too short and thick.

    The third one is not by Luch at all, but a real "Vympel" fully built by Poljot. It is not in the classic ultra-thin case, and not signed "de luxe" as expected. The Vympel design and manufacture was sold to Luch in 1970 or early 1971, so there's the Luch connection.

    Hope this is of some interest.

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    Member ltri's Avatar
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    Re: EPIC - Job Lot Arrival.... 9/10 running... Swiss, Russian and German! INFO needed

    Definitely a nice lot. I collect Russian watches also and I can say that the prices of Russian watches are going up, especially the less common ones. If you decided to sell any of them they would go for over the price you paid for them if you take good pictures and gave accurate detailed information.
    I'm a watchbreaker not a watchmaker.

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    Re: EPIC - Job Lot Arrival.... 9/10 running... Swiss, Russian and German! INFO needed

    Quote Originally Posted by trim View Post
    Pity someone has removed the centre seconds mechanism on the Lanco.
    K.
    Agreed K... Not sure what has happened to the Lanco....

    Quote Originally Posted by joeuk View Post
    those alarm watches are rubbish and I feel sorry for you so I will at least take one off your hands lol
    I will rescue you one from the bin....

    Quote Originally Posted by Hartmut Richter View Post
    The Solida Anker probably has the symbol of the case maker on the bottom: RoWi (Rodi & Wienenberger, Pforzheim, Germany). The rest probably reads "Boden Rostfreier Stahl" which means "Case back stainless steel". Presumably the rest is plated brass then. The movement is indeed an ETA calibre, something from the ETA 810 family:

    bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: ETA 810

    Hartmut Richter
    Cheers Hartmut... I will take a close up shot of the case back tonight, when I get back from work... But I think you are right! Its hard to read the writing, as it is in a stylized font and lower case...

    Quote Originally Posted by Seele View Post
    Sparcster,

    I noticed that eBay listing too, but decided not to go for it because of the non-Russian watches there! Being a collector of Russian watches I would not have a clue what to do with them
    Hope this is of some interest.
    Great Knowledge Seele.... I am kind of the other way around... My knowledge of 'Russian' watches is limited....

    I found that very interested... As I will be selling most (if not all) of the Russians, I always try to list the accurately! I will give a run down of the info provided thus far below... but do you know the originality of the Alarm watches... I gather the one on the left is pre 1966 and the right post 1966.... any thoughts on the dials/hands/cases? Would they both be described as 'Signal'? or just the original one?

    And the last 'Vympel' (never heard of it)... you mention different cases and dials.... is this original?

    Quote Originally Posted by ltri View Post
    Definitely a nice lot. I collect Russian watches also and I can say that the prices of Russian watches are going up, especially the less common ones. If you decided to sell any of them they would go for over the price you paid for them if you take good pictures and gave accurate detailed information.
    Thanks ltri.... I hope the market in Russian watches is just right.... I would like to sell these to fund the the repairs/service of the Solida and Revue




    Info so Far!

    1. Signal Alarm - pre 1966?
    2. Poljot (signal?) alarm post 1966
    3. 2415 'Orbita'.... I agree the minute hand looks like an hour hand from another watch!! the black marker on the minute hand differs to the hour hand!
    4. Gold 2416 'Kosmos' crown and second hand looks to be replaced.... but looks ok!
    5. 'silver' 2416 'Kosmos' looks to have been recased!
    6. Vympel handwind from the early 70s?
    7. GUB - GUB 62 cal? Date?
    8. Solida... ETA movement... German casing... date?
    9. Lanco.... redial/recase? sub second movement...
    10. Revue...... needs tlc.......

    If anyone can fill in the blanks or has any history on these... it would be appreciated!

    Thanks for the input so far

    Marc
    A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away...

    Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    Twitter: quickpicmarc

  9. #8
    Member Seele's Avatar
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    Re: EPIC - Job Lot Arrival.... 9/10 running... Swiss, Russian and German! INFO needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparcster View Post
    Great Knowledge Seele.... I am kind of the other way around... My knowledge of 'Russian' watches is limited....

    I found that very interested... As I will be selling most (if not all) of the Russians, I always try to list the accurately! I will give a run down of the info provided thus far below... but do you know the originality of the Alarm watches... I gather the one on the left is pre 1966 and the right post 1966.... any thoughts on the dials/hands/cases? Would they both be described as 'Signal'? or just the original one?

    And the last 'Vympel' (never heard of it)... you mention different cases and dials.... is this original?
    Sparcster,

    As I describe the Poljot automatics in the second lot of pictures under their original names, I cannot see why you cannot call both of them "Signals", but of course, I would call the Signal-signed one "Signal by 1MWF" and the other "Poljot alarm watch 'Signal by 1MWF'". I am not knowledgeable enough to authenticate Signals, so I hope someone would be able to step up!

    The Vympel was the original brand used for watches using the 1MWF 23-jewel 2209 ultra-thin movement, introduced in 1961, so the same situation as per Signal above. After the uniform adoption of the Poljot brand name, Vympel, Orbita and Kosmos (then well into its second version) all became known as "Poljot de luxe" models. It is interesting to see your Vympel bears the Poljot brand but not marked "de luxe": judging by the photographs it appears original too. While the ultra-thin case is best known, Poljot also made several different cases for the Vympel movement, and after Luch acquired its manufacturing rights, they put this movement in a very wide variety of cases, including chunky and massive ones.

    Most of my Vympels are in the classic ultra-thin case (in two variants) which is distinguishable from the back. These are two of them, sold in the UK by Sekonda UK, the one on the left was Poljot-built, the other was Luch-built:

    Name:  gold_black_x2_1.jpg
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    A later style round case used by Poljot is like this and with screw-on back instead of snap-on back, these are two of them but in stainless steel:

    Name:  steel_de_luxe_1.jpg
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    Due to the fact that Russian watch manufacturers tend to ensure a high level of parts compatibility, it is too easy to come across watches with inappropriate parts. Most buyers would not touch those, unless he has - or have access to the correct parts to rectify the faults. Speaking personally I do get such pieces if they are not expensive for "defrankenization", as I do have a weakness for these three models.

  10. #9
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    Re: EPIC - Job Lot Arrival.... 9/10 running... Swiss, Russian and German! INFO needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparcster View Post







    The Gub! Seems to be in nice condition... running well.... as for the movement... It seems to be signed '62'... looking at the pink pages for a guide... there is a GUB 60 and GUB 63.... So assume this is a GUB 62.... thoughts welcome one that... Along with age?





    Hi Marc!

    Congrats on a great lot of watches, really nice and interesting pieces!
    As far as I can see you still need some info about the GUB - a very nice one and in good condition.
    GUB 62 is correct for the caliber, which dates it to 1951 - 55. The follow up, the 62.2 has a shock protection and the bridge for the subsecond on the movement side(the 62 on the dial side).
    Here is some information about the 62, German only, sorry.
    Here is an overview about the caliber family and here some general info about the VEB Glashütter Uhrenbetriebe(GUB).
    Walzgolddoublé 20 Microns means it´s gold filled with 20 microns, Edelstahlboden means SS back.
    Best regards, Mike

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    Member Sparcster's Avatar
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    Re: EPIC - Job Lot Arrival.... 9/10 running... Swiss, Russian and German! INFO needed

    Thanks Mike and Seele for the info...

    Mike... my German is not that gut! But I get the gist! Is the GUB Gents? I only ask, as I thought this may have been earlier.....

    Info so Far!

    1. Signal Alarm - pre 1966 - assumed original?
    2. Poljot (signal) alarm post 1966 - assumed original?
    3. 2415 'Orbita' Poljot.... I agree the minute hand looks like an hour hand from another watch!! the black marker on the minute hand differs to the hour hand!
    4. Gold 2416 'Kosmos' Poljot crown and second hand looks to be replaced.... but looks ok!
    5. 'silver' 2416 'Kosmos' Poljot looks to have been recased!
    6. 'Vympel' Poljot handwind from the early 70s
    7. GUB - GUB 62 cal 1951-55 - GENTS?
    8. Solida... ETA movement... German casing... date?
    9. Lanco.... redial/recase? sub second movement...
    10. Revue...... needs tlc....... ??

    Thanks,

    Marc
    A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away...

    Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    Twitter: quickpicmarc

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