First post: up against a wall with pocket watch

Thread: First post: up against a wall with pocket watch

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  1. #1
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    First post: up against a wall with pocket watch

    This is what I know, if any of this is wrong please correct. This watch is a 14K full hunter case with an unsigned movement and face. The case has the collective responsibility mark no 2, the hammer with handle. With the number "39" inside the hammer head. Research tells me that this mark is pre 1966. The pre 1995 swiss gold mark is the "583 squirrel" with an "L" inside the stamp. That tells me that the assayers office was Le Locle. There is a crown style mark that I have not been able to attribute.

    This is a quarter repeater, lever type, with wire bell, there is a strange star shaped "gear" that sticks up from the movement and spins when the watch chimes.

    There is a repair date from 1984 scratch inside the movement back cover. The front cover has a serial number of 0572, and the back cover has a serial number of 20572.

    This is what I don't know.
    Who was registered the number "39" for the collective responsibility mark?
    Who were the prime contracts for this case maker?
    Is the movement identifiable in any way, as to age and house?

    As a side note I purchased this watch in Prague from a reputable dealer, in a small shop selling antique watches and clocks.

    Attached are several pictures that I hope will help.

    Any response will be helpful.
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  2. #2
    Member Eeeb's Avatar
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    Re: First post: up against a wall with pocket watch

    All of the markings you reference are for the case. They bear no relationship to the movement. These parts of the watch are often joined after the watch leaves the movement maker.

    As to the movement, it seems unique enough to be identified but the real experts will have to do that.

    Welcome to Vintage where puzzles produce posts pondering provenance.
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    ...that's just my opinion and I've been wrong before and will be again and might be now!

  3. #3
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    Re: First post: up against a wall with pocket watch

    I probably should have been more clear. What I am looking for is the name of the case manufacturer. I figure if I have that then I can look up who their main clients were, when they were/are in operation, and then determine who made the movement.

    Now if someone can identify the movement manufacture that would be great, but I'm kind of a research junkie so a gentle push in the right direction with the case makers name would be great.

    Chris

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  5. #4
    Member Marrick's Avatar
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    Re: First post: up against a wall with pocket watch

    According to:

    http://www.thehourlounge.com/thread/...952_38952.html

    39 should be Jeangros Freres & Cie. But that should be in 'Poinçon de Maître No. 3, FFBA Marquee', not the hammer. Hope that helps a bit.
    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects."

    Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)


    Please don't PM me to ask for a valuation - I won't attempt one.

  6. #5
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    Re: First post: up against a wall with pocket watch

    Does anyone know where I can get or see an index of case makers registered with the "Poinçon de Maître No. 2, Hammer with handle?"

  7. #6
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    Re: First post: up against a wall with pocket watch

    I'm a WUS lurker, so I'm sorry for jumping in ahead of the experts. But the star-shaped gear that turns when you activate the repeater complication may suggest that this watch movement originally powered an automaton case with some form of dial movement. If so, identifying the maker of this particular case may not be terribly useful as a lead in identifying the maker of the movement, as the current case and movement may not have been originally matched.

    Please take my comments with a grain of sale... I'm NOT a vintage expert!

  8. #7
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    Re: First post: up against a wall with pocket watch

    You know the idea that the movement and case are a marriage, did occure to me. But the two are very solid together. If it is a marriage then it's a good one. I hadn't even thought that the movement might be from an automaton watch. But with that star shaped "end piece" it would make sense, it doesn't really do anything except spin fast when the repeater is activated. I wonder if anyone else on the fourm could hazard a guess as to the movement's maker.

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