Is this fusee movement really from the 1600's?
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  1. #1
    Member omegaaa's Avatar
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    Confused Is this fusee movement really from the 1600's?

    Hi, I'd like to know if this is really from the 1600's? And then is it possible to get a more precise date when it was made? If you have any info on this, I'd love to hear :)
    "Watch manufacturer - Joh Paulus"
    "Paulus family watch & clock makers as early as 1525-year."

    Thank you!
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  2. #2
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    Re: Is this fusee movement really from the 1600's?

    It looks likely. I love early pocket watches and still don't understand why these beautiful craftsman pieces have less value than mass produced pieces.

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    Member Eeeb's Avatar
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    Re: Is this fusee movement really from the 1600's?

    In a word "no". Very few watches were made in the 1600s. Those that were tended to be big and are now owned by people who know what they are. Today they are "museum pieces". This is certainly pre-1850s. How pre others will have to say.
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    "Forever is composed of nows." - Emily Dickinson

    "The watch has to be surrounded by a history.
    You need more than just a great design. You need to create an atmosphere around the product.
    Who is the company behind it? Why are they using this material?
    People need to be able to identify the watch with themselves. It's based on emotion." - Ralph Furter

    ...that's just my opinion and I've been wrong before and will be again and might be now!

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    Member Eeeb's Avatar
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    Re: Is this fusee movement really from the 1600's?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoreWatches View Post
    It looks likely. I love early pocket watches and still don't understand why these beautiful craftsman pieces have less value than mass produced pieces.
    An early pocket watch made in my home town got me into collecting. They are beautiful mechanical marvels. But no one dumps millions into marketing them. And it is a pain to get them repaired.
    omegaaa likes this.
    "Forever is composed of nows." - Emily Dickinson

    "The watch has to be surrounded by a history.
    You need more than just a great design. You need to create an atmosphere around the product.
    Who is the company behind it? Why are they using this material?
    People need to be able to identify the watch with themselves. It's based on emotion." - Ralph Furter

    ...that's just my opinion and I've been wrong before and will be again and might be now!

  6. #5
    Member Border-Reiver's Avatar
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    Re: Is this fusee movement really from the 1600's?

    1600s? DEAD WRONG!

    This watch is from the second half of the 18th centrury.

    The name of the watchmaker is not Joh. (Johann) Paulus from 'Schneider City'. Joh. (Johann) and Paulus are both his (German) first names and his family name (engraved below) is Schneider.
    Joh. Paulus Schneider was active in the second half of the 18th centrury in Fürth, Germany (the neighboring town of Nuremberg).

    Check in your book under 'Schneider J. Paulus, Fürth, Germany'.

    Paulus is also a Germany family name. The watchmaker 'Paulus you have underlined and checked in your book is either Hans Paulus (German) or Pieter Paulus (Dutch).

    Whilst I am here: The (often seen) grotesque face at the end of the balance bride symbolized the North Wind. Tompion-type regulator. The endstone could be a diamond. If so, not a really valuable one, but nice to have. Perhaps it is glass, which was also often used, but which is also more special as bearing 'jewel'.

    All in all a nice movement and a bit rarer one from Germany.
    Last edited by Border-Reiver; November 12th, 2018 at 15:31.
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  7. #6
    Member Border-Reiver's Avatar
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    Re: Is this fusee movement really from the 1600's?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoreWatches View Post
    It looks likely. I love early pocket watches and still don't understand why these beautiful craftsman pieces have less value than mass produced pieces.
    Looks likely what? 1600s? The watch is from the second half of the 18th century (see comment before) and the looks are nowhere near to come to such an assumption.

    And where do you get antique verge fusee pocket watches below the price of mass produced watches (which can be anything)? Depending on the condition, they certainly have a much higher market value than an average mass product.

    On the other hand, unless we are talking about a restoration job or difficult repairs, sourcing or remake of missing parts, a verge fusee of this type can be totally cleaned (trovalisation) and re-assembled for a lot less than the cost for a service of an upper-market modern mechanical watch. A recent 'overhaul' of the watch shown below (including a minor repair) cost me obout 40% of a regular service for a simple 1980s Omega mechanical hand wind watch.
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    Last edited by Border-Reiver; November 12th, 2018 at 15:10.
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    Re: Is this fusee movement really from the 1600's?

    Johan Paulus Schneider was born in Furth the 9-5-1725 , married 30-4-1747 , watchmaker 1746, master 1747 , died 20-5-1759
    regards enrico
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  9. #8
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    I stand corrected about the year. Sometimes my fingers type things before my brain can think about it. 😀

    As far as prices go there are about 200 sold verge fusee movements on the bay between 20-200, so yeah, not a lot of value for the amount of work that went into it. I have the same issue with the prices of antique furniture, amazing pieces in the low hundreds just because "brown" is out of style. I personally value the hundreds of hours of work and the skill that went into these pieces, plus the history. It just boggles me where our priorities are right now. A beautiful antique watch or an old hutch is the same price as one nice dinner out!
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  10. #9
    Vint. Forum Co-Moderator Mirius's Avatar
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    Re: Is this fusee movement really from the 1600's?

    Purchase price and ownership cost of vintage watches are not the same hence the depressed value just like cars with salvage titles.


  11. #10
    Member Border-Reiver's Avatar
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    Re: Is this fusee movement really from the 1600's?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoreWatches View Post
    I stand corrected about the year. Sometimes my fingers type things before my brain can think about it. ��

    As far as prices go there are about 200 sold verge fusee movements on the bay between 20-200, so yeah, not a lot of value for the amount of work that went into it. I have the same issue with the prices of antique furniture, amazing pieces in the low hundreds just because "brown" is out of style. I personally value the hundreds of hours of work and the skill that went into these pieces, plus the history. It just boggles me where our priorities are right now. A beautiful antique watch or an old hutch is the same price as one nice dinner out!
    Well, there are watches (complete with movement, dial, hands, case) and movements. Some of these verge fusee movements on eBay are just fragments or have several parts missing or broken chains etc. I (still) have a few of them (mostly complete with dial and hands and just the case missing) and got rid of the others with a not so big loss. Honestly, is it better to have one watch, complete, fully working, or ten of those fragments? Middle of the 18th century, that was the time when Mozart was still alive and composing. I occasionally carry around such a watch during a nice dinner (the one shown above was made somewhere between 1750 and 1780). The American Declaration of Independance was signed during those years, and this watch runs down the chain like on day one with +/- 5 minutes a day. THAT'S impressive, that's a watch and not a dead movement, often only 'for parts and repair'. Everything has it's time...

    And don't be mistaken that a watchmaker was always making the entire watch by himself. Already in these days, there had been prefabricated parts, people doing just the chasing, others just made chains, wheels, balance bridges, cases etc. The watchmaker was usually just assembling and adjusting these parts and someone engraved his name on the movement. Of course, replicating broken parts was also part of the business, much more than today.
    Last edited by Border-Reiver; November 12th, 2018 at 18:25.

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