Help Define

Thread: Help Define

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  1. #1
    Member Emre's Avatar
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    Help Define

    I would appreciate your input in what ' Sertissages ' in watches, exactly means. I've searched and got some French definitions but translating doesn't help a lot.Is it some dial work/decorating related thing?

    The definition in question is actually about this ad from 1928, related to the brand I am collecting.

    Name:  SertissagePrecis.JPG
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    And one more question:

    Was Kelek involved in the automatic chrono coalition ( Heuer, Breitling, Buren, Depraz ), was it related with Breitling in those times also? Just wondering if there is Kelek contribution into those Cal 11- 15 chronos.

    Thank you...
    Last edited by Emre; May 26th, 2013 at 12:38.

  2. #2
    Member mike184's Avatar
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    Re: Help Define

    Hi Emre!

    Sertissage is both to curl and to enchase(a gemstone). I think it means enchasing here - the production of chatons for the pivots/jewels.

    To the second question: Dubois Dépraz delivered to Kelek, so there could be an (indirect) connection. Source
    Kelek and Breitling cooperated from the 1960s on and finally merged in 1997. Source

    But surely the movement experts here know more than me.
    Last edited by mike184; May 26th, 2013 at 20:08.
    Best regards, Mike

  3. #3
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: Help Define

    The Horology translation is
    "SETTING, n. Act of setting jewels. Setting by hand or machine. Setting was superseded (about 1923) by friction-jeweling, a simpler process necessitating very accurate fitting of the jewel."

    Hope that helps

    ACKNOWLEDGEMENT G.A. Berner - Dictionary Professional de Horology.

    Reference 'Kelek
    other brand names CHRONOSWISS
    No Mention in Pritchards book their relationship to others.
    So your question
    "Was Kelek involved in the automatic chrono coalition ( Heuer, Breitling, Buren, Depraz ), was it related with Breitling in those times also? Just wondering if there is Kelek contribution into those Cal 11- 15 chronos."

    answer is NO.
    ACTUALLY I have an article on the coalition into the design and launch of the automatic chronograph with full details

    Last edited by HOROLOGIST007; May 26th, 2013 at 17:50.
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

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  5. #4
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    Re: Help Define

    hello Adam sorry to correct but "fabrique de sertissages" means factory rings for jewels


    In watchmaking, a metal ring in which a jewel hole is fitted.

    A
    Balance-jewel setting.



    BTW Meylan was the founder of La glycine
    regards enrico

  6. #5
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: Help Define

    Quote Originally Posted by eri231 View Post
    hello Adam sorry to correct but "fabrique de sertissages" means factory rings for jewels


    In watchmaking, a metal ring in which a jewel hole is fitted.

    A
    Balance-jewel setting.



    BTW Meylan was the founder of La glycine
    regards enrico
    You are not correcting me at all
    You are correcting the bible of Horology Dictionary
    the Dictionnaire Professionnel Illustre De L'Horologerie (in 5 languages) by G.A. Berner
    it is printed by La Chamre suisse de l' Horoloerie - La Chaux-de-Fons

    Suggest you write to them.
    So no ambiguity I only gave the translation for ' Sertissages' as the OP asked

    Regards
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

  7. #6
    Member Emre's Avatar
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    Re: Help Define

    Thank you Mike, Adam and Enrico for your informative posts. Somehow from French translation I thought its some special dial patterns or handmade paintings even...
    Never know without asking.

    With this company he took also exclusive representation in 1927 of ' Bulle Clock ' for Switzerland.

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    Re: Help Define

    • "With this company he took also exclusive representation in 1927 of ' Bulle Clock ' for Switzerland."

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    regards enrico

  9. #8
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: Help Define

    Enrico
    That is a cool and lovely clock
    From my side I am sure the translation from that dictionary is correct.
    But I cannot guarantee it I and my mentor taught me to use it always

    Best
    adam
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

  10. #9
    Member mike184's Avatar
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    Re: Help Define

    Quote Originally Posted by HOROLOGIST007 View Post
    The Horology translation is
    "SETTING, n. Act of setting jewels. Setting by hand or machine. Setting was superseded (about 1923) by friction-jeweling, a simpler process necessitating very accurate fitting of the jewel."

    Hope that helps

    ACKNOWLEDGEMENT G.A. Berner - Dictionary Professional de Horology.
    Setting seems to be the correct term for what I(or my dictionary) meant with enchasing.
    I still believe it means setting jewels into chatons(metal rings) in this context. Doesn´t make sense to transport movement parts to another facility and back just to set jewels.

    Reference 'Kelek
    other brand names CHRONOSWISS
    No Mention in Pritchards book their relationship to others.
    So your question
    "[COLOR=#333333]Was Kelek involved in the automatic chrono coalition ( Heuer, Breitling, Buren, Depraz ), was it related with Breitling in those times also? Just wondering if there is Kelek contribution into those Cal 11- 15 chronos."

    answer is NO.
    ACTUALLY I have an article on the coalition into the design and launch of the automatic chronograph with full details.
    I don´t agree in this point. Kelek was a customer of Dubois Dépraz and cooperated with Breitling already in the 1960s. Maybe they weren´t officially involved in that common development of an automatic chronograph caliber at that time but behind the scenes there had been an amazing lot of cooperation inner the Swiss watch industry. Of course nobody will officially confirm that.
    Last edited by mike184; May 26th, 2013 at 21:04.
    Best regards, Mike

  11. #10
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: Help Define

    Quote Originally Posted by mike184 View Post


    I don´t agree in this point. Kelek was a customer of Dubois Dépraz and cooperated with Breitling already in the 1960s. Maybe they weren´t officially involved in that common development of an automatic chronograph caliber at that time but behind the scenes there had been an amazing lot of cooperation inner the Swiss watch industry. Of course nobody will officially confirm that.
    Let me check my records.
    I have them filed. Will pull them out and see if any mention
    Regards
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

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