Help ID 23 jewel swiss made pocket watch

Thread: Help ID 23 jewel swiss made pocket watch

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  1. #1
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    Help ID 23 jewel swiss made pocket watch

    I've been looking around trying to find info on my pocket watch which my grandfather gave me. All I've found is that is has a Dennison case, the watch says "swiss made" and "23 jewels" on it. It has some engravings which I can't read on the back. (crazy cursive) It's called a half-hunter because it has a window to see the time. It has a chain too which has some engravings which are too small for me to read. It's in very good condition in my opinion and works fine. When I opened the movement cover, it's very shiny.

    In my research, I noticed that most peoples watch proudly showed the watch makers name on it. As this just says "swiss made", I'm thinking it might be a knock off?

    Anyway, here are some pictures of it. Any info I can find out on it would be great! Thanks in advance!

    -Matt
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  2. #2
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    Re: Help ID 23 jewel swiss made pocket watch

    Nice quality and condition. English and Swiss. That is no cheap fake. Has a regulator like a fine early Swiss but has the appearance to me like 1920+.
    Something like this 1910+ Zenith, but not a Zenith. Probably from a good Swiss contract movement maker a jeweler put in the English case. Hope someone can accurately explain this one for you.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Help ID 23 jewel swiss made pocket watch

    Hi Matt,

    I don't think it's a fake, either. It looks perfectly genuine.

    Your chain is the kind known as a "Double Albert". One clip goes around the watch-bow, the other clip held onto something else, such as a pocket-knife, fountain pen, watch-key, etc. It was meant to be worn with a waistcoat.
    "Pipes are occasionally of extraordinary interest...nothing has more individuality save, perhaps, watches and bootlaces."

    - Sherlock Holmes.

    'The Yellow Face'.

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  5. #4
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    Re: Help ID 23 jewel swiss made pocket watch

    This is pure conjecture, but a possible explanation could be, that the watch originally came with a porcelain dial. That dial was later replaced with a stock replacement dial, with the customer deciding not spend the money, to have the makers name placed on the dial.

  6. #5
    Member rmelle's Avatar
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    Re: Help ID 23 jewel swiss made pocket watch

    Dear Nsmike,
    Why do you think it is a "Mariage" I have seen these watches quite often and often repaired them.
    I don't see a problem here.
    Real porcelain dials are way older. You can set the hour by pulling the crown, so it can't be a watch with porcelain dial...... So this one is after the keyless was fully evolved so very end 19th century and after.
    Ok, you must have the pocket in your hands and feel/smell/taste the watch to be sure, which can't be done on The Net....
    But no name on the dial means not that in definition it would be a "Mariage"
    Nice watch anyway, take good care of it.
    Age: between 1900's/1920's....

    regards,
    RJ van Melle.

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    Member lysanderxiii's Avatar
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    Re: Help ID 23 jewel swiss made pocket watch

    Quote Originally Posted by Shangas View Post
    Hi Matt,

    I don't think it's a fake, either. It looks perfectly genuine.

    Your chain is the kind known as a "Double Albert". One clip goes around the watch-bow, the other clip held onto something else, such as a pocket-knife, fountain pen, watch-key, etc. It was meant to be worn with a waistcoat.
    Originally, the other clip was for the key to wind the watch. After stem winding replaced keywinding, the second clip moved on to carry "other stuff", and it became a style thing...
    familiaritas parit contemptum; raritate admiratione wins.- Lucius Apuleius
    est necessry, accurate ad secundo? - Lysander magna
    iustum est horologium - Obscurus Genius

  8. #7
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    Re: Help ID 23 jewel swiss made pocket watch

    Hi Matt,

    your watch has a Revue 30 movement with negative setting mechanism (US style):
    http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-...k&Revue_30_sav

    Don't mind the different bridge layout; in my archive I have only the
    various layouts for the open face variant of this calibre:
    http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-...2uswk&Revue_30

    As Dennison was very active on the American market, it is no wonder that
    a movement with US style setting mechanism was prefered.

    Regards, Roland Ranfft

  9. #8
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    Re: Help ID 23 jewel swiss made pocket watch

    rmelle, In the United States, porcelain dials were fitted to watches up until about 1930. At the same time many jewelers would put together watches often putting together cases, movements, and dials from different sources. Usually, they would fit a dial with the movement manufacturers name, or their own. The best reason to put a sterile dial on a watch is when they were working on some one else watch.

  10. #9
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    Re: Help ID 23 jewel swiss made pocket watch

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland Ranfft View Post
    Hi Matt,

    your watch has a Revue 30 movement with negative setting mechanism (US style):
    http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-...k&Revue_30_sav


    Regards, Roland Ranfft
    He has wonderful references and is generous with accurate information that you can depend on. Glad he saw it and politely did not criticize what I wrote. Art B.

  11. #10
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    Re: Help ID 23 jewel swiss made pocket watch

    Hi Art,
    Quote Originally Posted by artb View Post
    He has wonderful references and is generous with accurate information that you can depend on. Glad he saw it and politely did not criticize what I wrote. Art B.
    Why should I, if I agree 10%?

    May be it is hard to believe today, but in the beginning of the last century
    people were not silly enough to worry about brands. It was much harder to
    effort a watch, and they worried about quality. And the seller was the
    person to guarantee it. So it was common use that most watches were
    produced with unsigned dial, and the seller proudly printed his name or his
    own brand on the dial, with a cheap simple pad printing machine, or simply
    left it white.

    Anyway, it would be too difficult today, to compose a Franken watch from
    a US style Swiss movement, a US style English movement, a matching
    English style dial, and special half hunter hands. And everyone calling this
    a Franken watch, should call every serial produced Breitling, Heuer, Tudor
    etc. with ETA movement a Franken.

    Regards, Roland Ranfft

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