Help ID this key wind silver pocket watch

Thread: Help ID this key wind silver pocket watch

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    76

    Help ID this key wind silver pocket watch

    Hello all,

    I am hoping that someone here will be able to provide me with some more information about a pocket watch that I recently acquired. It is a very nice piece and it is running.

    My guess is that it is a english silver key wind from early 1800's.

    Please see the description and photos. Thank you in advance for any help!

    Back of the watch case is decorated elaborately with "Wm. Ward Britannia 1818" with a sailboat. Also at the bottom of the case, marked "IOHN (JOHN) WARD 1800".

    Other possible marking that may help identify are the hallmarks on both the inside of the watch case and also inside of outer case. The markings include "U, Lion, Lion face, Silhouette of a head, TC (possible IC) and a cross.

    The watch is around 60mm across.

    Other interesting item includes papers contained in the case back under some old tapestry fabric. The paper is printed witg "C. ZIPFEL Establish 1800 Watch & Clock Maker, Jeweler & Co. 167 Magdalen Gates, Norwich"
    on the reverse side of the paper, the handwritten notes is very hard to read and much has been damaged. What we can make out so far is "Mr. Npar... Norwi.. (Norwich) perhaps 1902.... 4/-..."
    Attached Images Attached Images
















  2. #2
    Mod. Russian, China Mech. Chascomm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Western Australia
    Posts
    17,845

    Re: Help ID this key wind silver pocket watch

    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyknows View Post
    Hello all,

    I am hoping that someone here will be able to provide me with some more information about a pocket watch that I recently acquired. It is a very nice piece and it is running.

    My guess is that it is a english silver key wind from early 1800's.

    Please see the description and photos. Thank you in advance for any help!

    Back of the watch case is decorated elaborately with "Wm. Ward Britannia 1818" with a sailboat. Also at the bottom of the case, marked "IOHN (JOHN) WARD 1800".

    Other possible marking that may help identify are the hallmarks on both the inside of the watch case and also inside of outer case. The markings include "U, Lion, Lion face, Silhouette of a head, TC (possible IC) and a cross.

    The watch is around 60mm across.

    Other interesting item includes papers contained in the case back under some old tapestry fabric. The paper is printed witg "C. ZIPFEL Establish 1800 Watch & Clock Maker, Jeweler & Co. 167 Magdalen Gates, Norwich"
    on the reverse side of the paper, the handwritten notes is very hard to read and much has been damaged. What we can make out so far is "Mr. Npar... Norwi.. (Norwich) perhaps 1902.... 4/-..."
    Classic English early 19th Century. Fusee drive, verge escapement and double case. And it's a runner! I'm jealous.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    76

    Re: Help ID this key wind silver pocket watch

    Quote Originally Posted by Chascomm View Post
    Classic English early 19th Century. Fusee drive, verge escapement and double case. And it's a runner! I'm jealous.
    Thank you for the information. This confirms what I thought this watch to be. Do you or anyone happen to know about the particular watch maker or the hallmarks on the case. I am sure there were many such makers during that time, but thought I would ask.

    Would you say that 1818 as shown on the case would seem right for the age of this watch?

    I don't collect Pocket Watches, so not sure what I want to do with it yet!

  4. Remove Advertisements
    WatchUSeek.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Member Shangas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,024

    Re: Help ID this key wind silver pocket watch

    Very interesting. What's the '4/-' for? I'm guessing that's four shillings and no pence, right?
    "Pipes are occasionally of extraordinary interest...nothing has more individuality save, perhaps, watches and bootlaces."

    - Sherlock Holmes.

    'The Yellow Face'.

  6. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    76

    Re: Help ID this key wind silver pocket watch

    Quote Originally Posted by Shangas View Post
    Very interesting. What's the '4/-' for? I'm guessing that's four shillings and no pence, right?
    I think so. My guess is that the watch was sold for 4 shillings. However, the papers show that it may have been sold in 1902, far later than the original date of manufacture.

    So what I am trying to figure out is that the watch was made by Wm. Ward in 1818. Then it was purchased in 1902 from C. Zipfel of Norwich for 4 pounds?

  7. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,355

    Re: Help ID this key wind silver pocket watch

    Your photo of the hallmarks on the inside of the case back are not sharp, but I can recognize with full certainty the pre-1822 London assay house mark (crowned leopard) and the lion signifying sterling silver. I'm having trouble with the style of the date mark U, indicating either 1795 or 1815. Both these dates seem to fit in with inscription on the watch back. The same hallmarks should appear on the outer case under the piece of cloth. Also your watch has a Tompion regulator, that's the small numbered dial. Used to adjust the watch's rate. A good quality verge fusee might be accurate to within a minute/day when new, but often are much worse. They have the reputation for running fast.

    The watch paper is probably indicative of a repair, perhaps made a century after the watch was made. Sometimes these old English verge fusees come with layers of watch papers in the case back.

    Great watch, nothing like the ticking sound of a verge fusee.

  8. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    76

    Re: Help ID this key wind silver pocket watch

    Quote Originally Posted by RON in PA View Post
    Your photo of the hallmarks on the inside of the case back are not sharp, but I can recognize with full certainty the pre-1822 London assay house mark (crowned leopard) and the lion signifying sterling silver. I'm having trouble with the style of the date mark U, indicating either 1795 or 1815. Both these dates seem to fit in with inscription on the watch back. The same hallmarks should appear on the outer case under the piece of cloth. Also your watch has a Tompion regulator, that's the small numbered dial. Used to adjust the watch's rate. A good quality verge fusee might be accurate to within a minute/day when new, but often are much worse. They have the reputation for running fast.

    The watch paper is probably indicative of a repair, perhaps made a century after the watch was made. Sometimes these old English verge fusees come with layers of watch papers in the case back.

    Great watch, nothing like the ticking sound of a verge fusee.
    Thank you very much. Yes, the same hallmarks appear under the cloth, with the addition of a cross.

    I agree, the sound of it ticking is very unique. A much louder than the other pocket watches that I have around. I am testing it now, and it's been running now for about 6 hours.

  9. #8
    Member Shangas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,024

    Re: Help ID this key wind silver pocket watch

    It looks like a truly beautiful watch. If you don't mind my asking, what kind of time does it keep? How accurate is it?
    "Pipes are occasionally of extraordinary interest...nothing has more individuality save, perhaps, watches and bootlaces."

    - Sherlock Holmes.

    'The Yellow Face'.

  10. #9
    Member Ray MacDonald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Almonte ON Canada
    Posts
    23,771

    Re: Help ID this key wind silver pocket watch

    Quote Originally Posted by RON in PA View Post
    Your photo of the hallmarks on the inside of the case back are not sharp, but I can recognize with full certainty the pre-1822 London assay house mark (crowned leopard) and the lion signifying sterling silver. I'm having trouble with the style of the date mark U, indicating either 1795 or 1815. Both these dates seem to fit in with inscription on the watch back. The same hallmarks should appear on the outer case under the piece of cloth. Also your watch has a Tompion regulator, that's the small numbered dial. Used to adjust the watch's rate. A good quality verge fusee might be accurate to within a minute/day when new, but often are much worse. They have the reputation for running fast.

    The watch paper is probably indicative of a repair, perhaps made a century after the watch was made. Sometimes these old English verge fusees come with layers of watch papers in the case back.

    Great watch, nothing like the ticking sound of a verge fusee.
    I think the case hallmark is probably 1815 and the watch looks like an early 19th century Verge to me as well. Beautiful piece.

    There are fathers who do not love their children; there is no grandfather who does not adore his grandson. ~ Victor Hugo

  11. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    76

    Re: Help ID this key wind silver pocket watch

    Quote Originally Posted by Shangas View Post
    It looks like a truly beautiful watch. If you don't mind my asking, what kind of time does it keep? How accurate is it?
    Hi, I left the watch running over night. It is now about 43 minutes fast over 12 hours. I have not played with it yet to change how fast it runs.

    One other note is that the watch will stop depending on its position. It seems to run strong when flat, but will intermittently stop when held upright as it would normally be worn.

    To get this watch serviced, should I find a specialist in these types of watches?

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •