Help identifying Cine freres
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  1. #1
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    Help identifying Cine freres

    Need help to identifying and dating this watch. The movement is ca 26mm and marked 7 jewels swiss, 2 adj'mts and Cine Freres.




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    Member AbslomRob's Avatar
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    Re: Help identifying Cine freres

    I'd put it in the 1910-1920 range. I tend to associate "2 Adj." with the period prior to 1913 (when the US allowed companies to put "unadjusted" on movements), but that's a US thing; I think the U.K. had their own marking requirements which also influenced this. No hits on "cine freres", but given that it just means "Cine Brothers", it likely just refers to some small watchmaker.
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    Re: Help identifying Cine freres

    I found a similar watch on ebay. Cine will be Racine, two letters missing on the watch movement. Does anyone have info about Racine freres?

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    Member Emre's Avatar
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    Re: Help identifying Cine freres

    Racine Freres !!! If you hit the Racine ( Enicar, reversed written ) -Electa-Jeanneret-Gallet dynasty with this watch,is wonderful.Movement could be Electa,maybe an early example?

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    Re: Help identifying Cine freres

    Quote Originally Posted by AbslomRob View Post
    I'd put it in the 1910-1920 range. I tend to associate "2 Adj." with the period prior to 1913 (when the US allowed companies to put "unadjusted" on movements), but that's a US thing; I think the U.K. had their own marking requirements which also influenced this. No hits on "cine freres", but given that it just means "Cine Brothers", it likely just refers to some small watchmaker.
    Rob, could you expand on the"when the US allowed companies to put "unadjusted" on movements" statement? It could help enormously in early American watch dating if you mean what I think, but I am not exactly sure of your meaning.
    Thanks, Bob.
    Pardon the interruption guys.

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    Member AbslomRob's Avatar
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    Re: Help identifying Cine freres

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbee View Post
    Rob, could you expand on the"when the US allowed companies to put "unadjusted" on movements" statement? It could help enormously in early American watch dating if you mean what I think, but I am not exactly sure of your meaning.
    Thanks, Bob.
    Pardon the interruption guys.
    I think this is already in a sticky about watch movement markings, but basically, the 1909 U.S. Tariff Act required all imported movements to state the number of adjustments. Prior to that, imported movements didn't need to state how many adjustments they had. The 1913 Tariff act amended this to say that movements could instead be labeled as "unadjusted".

    The more certain thing is that you probably won't find "unadjusted" on a movement from before 1913; there would have been no point. And it's unlikely you'd have seen "2 adj" before 1909, for the same reason; you didn't want to make a explicit point of how low-grade your movement was if you didn't have to.

    Also, after the 1922 tariff act, the number of adjustments on a 17 jewel watch increased the tariff rate; just temp was $2.75, three adj. was $4.75 and five adj. was $6.50. That lasted till 1930, when 17j watches were just flat-taxed at $10.75, and the number of adjustments was only a factor for watches with less then 17 jewels.
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    Re: Help identifying Cine freres

    Thanks for explaining it in such great detail Rob, I did not know this and it could prove an enormous help in the future.
    Very interesting.
    Cheers, Bob.

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    Re: Help identifying Cine freres

    same movement of Racine was also marketed by Bulova years 1911-12
    regards enrico

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    Re: Help identifying Cine freres

    Quote Originally Posted by eri231 View Post
    same movement of Racine was also marketed by Bulova years 1911-12
    regards enrico
    Hi Enrico. Could you give any more info regarding the Bulova dates? I am interested in early Bulovas, and have never seen any that appear to date before 1917 -1918.
    Regards, Bob.

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    Member Outta Time's Avatar
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    Re: Help identifying Cine freres

    It also occurs to me that this is where the story about marking movts 'unadjusted' would save the importer money. This occurs even today, but there are no markings involved. We had to do final adjustment on some high end watches in large numbers because they had come from the factory literally 'unadjusted'. I can only assume this was a cost cutting measure.
    What I originally heard was that movts that were 'unfinished' avoided certain tariffs, and an unadjusted movt could be considered 'unfinished' in this respect.
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