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  1. #1
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    Help with my first purchase

    Hi Guys

    I always loved the vintage look and feel, and i looked at watches as something i'd like to know more and own for a while now, but since i got in my 30's the appeal as grown and now i wanted to start a small collection, but there are so many things i feel i don't know yet in order to start with the right foot, so i've been browsing the forum and found a couple of threads that helped me, at least to narrow down my choices, but i would like your help with some i found interesting on ebay .
    If you guys are willing to help me out, i'd love to know your thoughts on what you guys think i should start my collection with (i know in the end is a question of what each one a of personal taste, but you guys know better than me what are good machines, and which are the ones that in the end will be good watches not just to have in a cabinet, but for actual use). Bare in mind i'm aware i probably have different types of machines, and might not be fair to compare side by side, but still here it goes:

    ZODIAC SWISS LE LOCLE DATOGRAPHIC 17 JEWEL AUTOMATIC
    http://i.ebayimg.com/t/VINTAGE-GENTS...eTg~~60_57.JPG
    and
    http://i.ebayimg.com/t/VINTAGE-GENTS...U)!~~60_57.JPG

    Description:
    "A Swiss Le Locle 20 micron gold plated Zodiac automatic watch with the 17 jewel calibre 1363 movement. The watch is from the late 1950's.The case is in good condition,with some small wear to the plate on the leading edges of the lugs. The case has the number 1162814 between the lugs. Minor scratches to the glass,some tiny age related marks on the dial.
    The watch runs very well,date adjusts correctly.
    The case measures 33mm across not including the crown,and it has a screw down case back.
    This is a really great Collectors' watch,that can be worn every day. "

    c1950 Vintage CYMA TAVANNES CAL.R414Ka H/W
    http://i.ebayimg.com/t/c1950-Vintage...KwQ~~60_12.JPG
    and
    http://i.ebayimg.com/t/c1950-Vintage...lCg~~60_12.JPG

    Description:
    "
    • c1950 Vintage CYMA TAVANNES SUB SECS 15 JEWEL CAL. R.414Ka HAND WIND WATCH, in good condition for it's age and good working order complete with Black Leather Strap.
    • The all steel case measures approx. 34mm excluding the crown x 43mm over the 18mm wide fancy attached lugs, with steel crown and snap on case back. The inside case back is signed, Cyma Watch Co., Swiss Made, Acier Inoxydable, Stainless Steel, 28376, 354.
    • The beautifully aged silver dial has gold hour numerals, black minute markers, gold leaf hands and subsidiary seconds dial above the 6 position. The dial is signed, Cyma, Swiss Made.
    • The Cyma 15 Jewel Cal. R.414Ka Hand Winding Movement is in good working order, keeps good time and is signed, Cyma Tavannes Watch Co., R.414Ka, Swiss, 15 Jewels and the serial no. 276210 indicating a production date of c1950.
    • The watch is fitted with a new size 18mm wide Black Genuine Leather Strap with Steel Buckle.
    • A collectable 50's Vintage Cyma Tavannes Hand Winding Watch in good condition for it's age with some wear and user marks to case and crown, new crystal fitted and nicely aged patina dial"






    LONGINES Cal. 280 17JEWELS ACIER INOXYDABLE BLACK DIAL
    http://i.ebayimg.com/t/VINTAGE-LONGI...iEg~~60_12.JPG
    and
    http://i.ebayimg.com/t/VINTAGE-LONGI...bd!~~60_12.JPG

    Description:
    "All original fine Longines Cal. 280 17Jewels, estimated date of production in the 1960s;

    • Powered by Longines Cal. 280 17 Jewels, "Longines 17Jewels Swiss 280 11531062", The watch is fully working and keeping time;
    • Case: Acier Inoxydable Case, look at the photos and enjoy the wonderful design;
    • Bottom: Acier Inoxydable, signed: "Longines Fab. Suisse Swiss Made Acier Inoxydable 6884-11 261";
    • Dial: Originales Omega Dial, signed "Longines Swiss Made";
    • Watch Glass: New not original Longines glass (look at the photos),
    • Diameter of case not including crown: app. 34,62mm;
    • Crown: Original Longines crown"


    1960s Vintage Gold Plated Boxed Elgin 891 Calibre
    http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Beautiful-196...,R!~~60_12.JPG
    and
    http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Beautiful-196...WMQ~~60_12.JPG

    Description:
    "Beautiful 1960s Vintage Gold Plated Boxed Elgin 891 Calibre Men's Dress Watch.
    It certainly looks 1960s to me though could even be 1950s.
    The original box is a little bit battered and marked but a great vintage item and I have not seen many in their original boxes.
    The movement is stamped "ELGIN 891 17 JEWELS" and the inside of the case back is stamped "CASED AND TIMED BY ELGIN WATCH COMPANY 1497".
    This is an exquisite example from Elgin in perfect running order. Really slim line and stylish design.
    The case diameter is 35mm.
    The vintage strap is gold plated expanding stainless steel and is in excellent condition.
    As you can see this watch is in excellent condition aesthetically apart from the back of the case which does show a bit of damage as shown in the photograph of the movement. The front of the case, the crystal and dial are in absolutely fantastic condition as you can see. The vintage, gold plated expanding metal strap is in excellent condition overall. The watch is ticking away nicely and keeping time to within a couple of minutes each day. When a mechanical watch is described as working it means that it is tested by myself and is ticking away nicely and keeping good time in a 24 hour period. Please bear in mind that should you buy any vintage, mechanical watch it may require a full service in the future or may begin to lose or gain time in the future."

    Elgin (Mastertime) 1960's Sportsman 17 Jewel
    Auctiva Image Hosting
    and
    Auctiva Image Hosting

    Description:
    "Dial condition: Shows a little age Silver with raised Gold markers and hands Case condition: Very little age Swiss Made Incabloc Stainless Steel Back
    Movement type and condition: Manual Mastertime 17 Jewel Sets, winds and runs fine, keeps time
    Crystal/Glass condition: Excellent
    Strap condition & Material: New Brown leather
    Size of watch: 33mm wide excluding crown 42mm long 10mm deep 18mm strap width
    General comments: Very nice vintage gents watch, ready to wear"

    Waltham 1960's Gents 17 Jewel Automatic Watch
    http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage3.aspx?
    gid=592035&image=685347246&images=685347246,685347 262,685347278,685347292&formats=0,0,0,0&format=0

    and
    Auctiva Image Hosting

    Description:

    "Dial condition: Excellent Silver with Gold markers and Gold hands
    Case condition: Excellent Waltham Stainless Steel Back
    Movement type and condition: Automatic Waltham 17 Jewel Sets, winds and runs fine, keeps time
    Crystal/Glass condition: Excellent
    Strap condition & Material: New Brown pigskin
    Size of watch: 34mm wide excluding crown 39mm long 12mm deep 17mm strap width
    General comments: Lovely vintage gents watch, ready to wear"

    Enicar Ultrasonic
    http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Vintage-Gents...2,g~~60_12.JPG
    and
    http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Vintage-Gents...dF!~~60_12.JPG


    Description:
    "Enicar Ultrasonic gents wristwatch
    Its in good condition for its age, its swiss made and has 17 jewels.
    The casing has some age related marks (see pics) but the acrylic is clean an clear
    The watch has been hygienicaly cleaned and polished so its ready to wear or go straight into your collection!
    Its in good condition all working fine and keeps very good time
    Comes on a very nice new black leather wriststrap
    Size approx 35mm x 35mm "

    ROAMER ANFIBIO
    http://kulturagentur-franken.de/bilder2/DSCF0455.JPG
    and
    http://kulturagentur-franken.de/bilder2/DSCF0479.JPG

    Description:
    (the description is in German)
    The only bit in English i could find
    "an absolutely gift-able vintage watch,
    The watch is presently running, no warranty applies.
    I do guarantee the authenticity of this watch."

    The little bit more expensive group:

    Gold Wittnauer Watch

    http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Vintage-Luxur...+CQ~~60_12.JPG
    and
    http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Vintage-Luxur...SPw~~60_12.JPG

    Description:
    "This is an auction not to be missed as the timepiece shown is the much sought after Vintage Luxury Men’s '10K Gold Filled' Wittnauer that is extremely hard to come by (one of the rarest) and is 100% Authentic.
    This superb Vintage Gucci timepiece has been cleaned and polished, along with a new leather strap fitted.

    Condition is good and is working, See pics.
    A run down of the features are:

    • 10k Gold Filled case, crown & hands
    • High quality 'Manual Wind' Swiss movement
    • Wittnauer written on face
    • Swiss written on face
    • Wittnauer logo on face & crown
    • Stamped on reverse: 10K G.F & Stainless Steel Back

    The diameter of the case without the crown is 32mm (with crown is 34mm), Height 32mm, lug to lug 17mm. "

    FAVRE LEUBA Geneve Daymatic Automatic Date
    http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...2013/91621.jpg
    and
    http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...2013/91626.jpg

    Description:
    "100% Genuine Favre Leuba Geneve Automatic Date Steel Mens WatchOld Used Watch Restored & Serviced now in Ready to Wear Condition. (Please See Pictures)
    Nice Black Dial with Radium Index & Steel with Radium Hands, have been repainted by an Expert to make it look like New & Flawless.
    Stainless Steel Case with FAVRE LEUBA Logo on Back, have been polished to make it look like New & Flawless
    Casing will show age but wont let the attraction level down. (Please See Pictures )
    Size measuring 35mm width without Crown , 40mm Lugs tip to tip
    Mechanism is Self Winding , Automatic , Caliber 1152, recently Serviced Professionally by an Expert & is in Good working Condition
    Dial , Case , Back , Machine & Crown are all Signed By FAVRE LEUBA
    Age : Around 50 Years Old Watch.
    After market Black band attached.
    New Acrylic Glass after market attached to it .
    As with all of our watches, authenticity is guaranteed!"


    TISSOT Winding Sie Second

    http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...2013/91691.jpg
    and
    http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...2013/91695.jpg

    Description:
    "100% GenuineTissot Winding Side Seond Steel Watch
    Old Used Watch Restored & Serviced now in Ready to Wear Condition. (Please See Pictures)
    Nice Black Color Dial with Radium Index & White Hands , it has been repainted by an expert to make it look like New & Flawless
    Stainless Steel Case has been polished to make it look like New & Flawless
    Casing will show age but won't let the attraction level down. (Please See Pictures)
    Size measuring 31mm width without Crown & 39.5mm Lugs tip to tip.
    Mechanism is Manual , Hand Winding Cal. 27-3 , recently Serviced Professionally by an Expert & is in Good working Condition.
    Dial , Case , Back , Machine , Crown are all Signed By TISSOT
    Age : Around 40-50 Years Old Watch.
    After Market Black Band Attached to it.
    New Acrylic Glass attached to it as old one got many scratched & cracks.
    As with all of our watches, authenticity is guaranteed!"

    TISSOT SeastarSeven

    http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...2013/91711.jpg
    and
    http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...2013/91716.jpg

    Description:

    "100% GenuineTissot SeastarSeven Winding Steel Watch
    Old Used Watch Restored & Serviced now in Ready to Wear Condition. (Please See Pictures)
    Nice Black Color Dial with Radium Index & Steel with Radium Hands , it has been repainted by an expert to make it look like New & Flawless
    Stainless Steel Case has been polished to make it look like New & Flawless
    Casing will show age but won't let the attraction level down. (Please See Pictures)
    Size measuring 33 mm width without Crown & 38mm Lugs tip to tip.
    Mechanism is Manual , Hand Winding , 17 Jewels , Cal. 781-1 , recently Serviced Professionally by an Expert & is in Good working Condition.
    Dial , Case , Back , Machine , Crown are all Signed By TISSOT
    Age : Around 40-50 Years Old Watch.
    After Market Black Band Attached to it.
    New Acrylic Glass attached to it as old one got many scratched & cracks.
    As with all of our watches, authenticity is guaranteed!"

    1977s Champagne Vintage OMEGA Seamaster Automatic Quick Day Date

    http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...2013/83771.jpg
    and
    http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...2013/83776.jpg

    Description:
    "100% Genuine Omega Seamaster Automatic Day Date Mens Watch
    Old Used Watch Restored & Serviced now in Ready to Wear Condition. (Please See Pictures)
    Nice Champagne Color Dial with Golden with Black Index Index & Golden with Black Hands . The Original dial is in Good condition. Shows age. (Please see pictures)
    The Roll Gold Top has been white plated & Steel back with Seamaster logo has been polished to make it look like New & Flawless.
    Casing will show age but won't let the attraction level down. (Please See Pictures)
    Size measuring 32.5mm width without Crown & 38mm Lugs tip tip.
    Mechanism is Automatic , Self Winding , Caliber 1022 , 23 Jewels , recently Serviced Professionally by an Expert & is in Good working Condition.
    Dial , Case , Crown , Back , Machine , are all Signed By OMEGA.
    Age : Around 30-40 Years Old Watch.
    After Market Black Band Attached to it.
    New Acrylic Glass attached to it as old one got many scratched & cracks.
    The White Plating will worn off on regular use and the Yellow Roll Gold Top will be seen
    As with all of our watches, authenticity is guaranteed!"





    I'm so sorry for the long post (i took alot out at the last minute (auctions that were ending, the ones i ruled out, less credible sellers,etc), if you guys had the patient to bare with me i appreciate it, and i thank you in advance for any opinions to help me out.


    Thank you for yout time and best Regards

    Nuno
    JP71624 likes this.

  2. #2
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    Re: Help with my first purchase

    Hi Nuno,

    pretty many, but I'll try it.

    Zodiac:
    Good condition, good movement, either AS 1555 or AS 1659:
    bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: AS 1555
    Only the movement signature confuses me: After my records Zodiac either adopted the designation from the movement maker or applied own two-digit designations.

    Cyma 414Ka:
    For my taste it exceedes the charming-patina limit to some extent. But these Cyma movements are near bullet proof and collectable for their beauty.

    Longines 280:
    The dial is likely redone, but at least fairly made - no misalignment of the print, glazed instead of cheap black-paint shower. Moreover the over all condition appears good.

    Elgin 891:
    This watch is only interesting if you like the design. It is only branded Elgin. The movement is an FHF 72 or one of its many derivatives:
    bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: FHF 72
    Good stuff from mass production, but not actually exciting. Moreover you should be aware that the seriously corroded back side of the case will color your wrist greenish now and then.

    Elgin Sportsman, Waltham 1960s, and Enicar Ultrasonic:
    I'd not touch a watch without seeing the movement, and of course I can't also tell nothing about them.

    Roamer Anfibio:
    Good shape. The movement is of good quality, but really no beauty. It belongs to the last in-house movement line from MST. The automatic of this line looks nice:
    bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: MST 522
    but MST cared for low production costs. So the manual winder is simply a stripped automatic - and looks like stripped. Just a remark: The seller should not have his breakfast while the watch is open. The particle on the balance bearing will stop the watch sooner or later.

    Wittnauer:
    No movement pic; cf. above.

    Favre-Leuba Daymatic, Tissot sub second, and Tissot Seastar Seven:
    Mumbai junk, i.e. painted watch cadavers
    If you compare the dials of the Favre-Leuba and the Tissot Seastar, and you don't hear alarm bells, an ear specialist is a better choice than a watch specialist.

    Omega Seamaster:
    Seriously corroded and over-polished case, but else acceptable.

    Regards, Roland Ranfft

    BTW: You'll get more response if you open a separate thread for each watch. People don't like to be showered with questions.
    Last edited by Roland Ranfft; July 15th, 2013 at 03:21.
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  3. #3
    Member john*thomas's Avatar
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    Re: Help with my first purchase

    I admit my biases are Zodiac's, Hamilton's and Omega's. So my pick would be the Zodiac.

    You have an Omega listed but the movements in the later 70's weren't up to snuff to the earlier ones. If you go with an Omega go with an earlier one.

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  5. #4
    Member Marrick's Avatar
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    Re: Help with my first purchase

    I've not got the time to look at each one in detail - but I'd trust Roland's opinions on them.

    In general though avoid both Favre-Leuba and Omega unless you really know what you're doing as both brands have a higher than average number of 'not as they should be' examples out there.

    I've got several Zodiacs - all nicely made and finished. That one looks good to me.
    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects."

    Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)


    Please don't PM me to ask for a valuation - I won't attempt one.

  6. #5
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: Help with my first purchase

    Hi and welcome
    First congrats on doing a lot of research, and asking here before purchasing.
    Roland has very accurately and detailed reply.
    Longines would be great, but I am put off by reworked dial.
    The OMEGA although Roland says "seriously corroded" looks very good to me. I suspect Roland is implying that its so heavily polished that it must have been corroded - not sure
    But to me movement, dial and case looks good.
    Stay away from Favre
    Let us know which way you jump
    Regards
    Last edited by HOROLOGIST007; July 15th, 2013 at 10:11.
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

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  7. #6
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    Re: Help with my first purchase

    Hi Guys

    And first of all, let me tell you that i'm seriously impressed with all the help i got in this short amount of time, and i thank you all.
    Second Roland seriously mate that's quite a presentation and i appreciate it, because not only it answers my question,but it gives me knowledge along the way :)
    And now to the good stuff:

    Regarding the Elgin Sportsman, Waltham 1960s, and Enicar Ultrasonic, Wittnauer,i've requested pictures of the movement so i can get more info, i really liked to see your opinion on that Wittnauer restoration.
    As for the
    Favre-Leuba Daymatic, Tissot sub second, and Tissot Seastar Seven,i get what you're saying because i read about the Indian Restores, but (and this goes for the Omega as well) , they all come from the same seller wich only sells watches has 979 feeback with 100% satisfaction, and is located in England, that's why i thought i could be a "non-indian" restore =).
    So the ones on the top of my list now because of "crowd support" and after the explanation by Roland, are the Zodiac and the Logines (but i'm still waiting for some of those pics), aesthetically i like the Longines a little better, because of the size (it's a little bit bigger, and i'm a very tall fellow) and overall look , but you guys scared me with the paint jobs talk :D and also the price now rising much faster than the Zodiac.

    Once again i'm gratefull for the input, it will prevent me of doing a purchase that i could regret potentially ending my collection before it even starts, and i'll keep you posted , if i get the pictures of the other 3/4 i'll put them in here for your appreciation.

    Best Regards

    Last edited by NEngenheiro; July 15th, 2013 at 12:07.

  8. #7
    Member bspargo's Avatar
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    Re: Help with my first purchase

    HI, generally i find that after i am satisfied that the watch is "as it should be", i.e. not a frankenwatch etc. Then the next most important thing for me is the condition of the dial. Bad dial with uneven ageing, or with the writing worn off generally destroys it for me and i don't give it a second look. The dial is what you look at most on the watch most regularly so for me this is quite important, and there are a lot of watches out there with bad dials. Some people think you can just get a replacement dial, and sometimes you can, but more often than not you wait a long time for the exact dial to come along, or you never find it for some watches (also getting the dial redone is also expensive and lowers the value of the watch to many collectors) Next most important for me is whether it is working or not. If it isn't then factor in a cost for repair, as you're new to this you're better off buying one that is definitely in working order.

    Some might disagree, but the 'patina' on the dial of the cyma tavannes doesn't appeal to me and I think would detract from the value of the watch.

    The other thing is with gold plating. Gold plating can wear off over time. Check photos to see if any areas are worn already, as it is likely it will continue to wear off in these areas. Over time this can look quite ugly as the gold wears off unevenly. It can be replaced, although i've had one example of a tudor watch where they couldn't make the gold plating stick, and they stuffed the bracelet up a bit in the process. So if gold plating is wearing i'd recommend avoiding the hassle. (personally i generally avoid any gold plated watch, but that's just me, many people don't mind).

    I like the enicar ultrasonic, says it's been serviced, so likely it will keep running for a while (although clearly you cant always believe everything the description says!, this is ebay after all), and it looks clean and original.
    The wittnauer looks really good, even though it is gold plated, they had an association with longines, and the movements were usually pretty good quality.
    Agree with the commenter above, re the favre leube and the tissots...mumbai junk.
    haha, i like the description on the longines, "original Omega dial, signed Longines", what the! haha must be a typo, but funny. Same with the wittnauer description, a gucci watch?!?

    All the above is just my opinion based on my personal experiences.
    hope that helps.
    good luck.
    Last edited by bspargo; July 15th, 2013 at 13:57.

  9. #8
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    Re: Help with my first purchase

    Thanks bspargo, i agree i tend to shy away from the gold in vintage material as well, but the Zodiac looks not to be very affected (it shows a little bit but not too much), but i'll keep that in mind because i want to wear it as i stated and i don't want to see it looking awfull after a few years.
    As for the Enicar, i'm waiting on the other pics, i still have an eye on it, because it's still very cheap, so i might graib a bargain if i don't overspend on the "main course" =)

    I've been looking at the Longines and it got me a bit worried because i looked for similar models online and i see the back usually has marking such as this
    pic1
    http://www.arkcollectables.co.uk/img...0-thickbox.jpg
    pic2
    http://www.arkcollectables.co.uk/img...3-thickbox.jpg
    and the one i posted here as a back plate like this
    pic1
    http://i.ebayimg.com/t/VINTAGE-LONGI...Jy!~~60_12.JPG
    pic2
    http://i.ebayimg.com/t/VINTAGE-LONGI...JLg~~60_12.JPG

    should i be worried?

    Regards
    Last edited by NEngenheiro; July 15th, 2013 at 13:54.

  10. #9
    Member bspargo's Avatar
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    Re: Help with my first purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by NEngenheiro View Post
    Thanks bspargo, i agree i tend to shy away from the gold in vintage material as well, but the Zodiac looks not to be very affected (it shows a little bit but not too much), but i'll keep that in mind because i want to wear it as i stated and i don't want to see it looking awfull after a few years.
    As for the Enicar, i'm waiting on the other pics, i still have an eye on it, because it's still very cheap, so i might graib a bargain if i don't overspend on the "main course" =)

    I've been looking at the Longines and it got me a bit worried because i looked for similar models online and i see the back usually has marking such as this
    http://www.arkcollectables.co.uk/img...0-thickbox.jpg
    and the one i posted here as a back plate like this
    http://i.ebayimg.com/t/VINTAGE-LONGI...Jy!~~60_12.JPG

    should i be worried?

    Regards
    My guess is that the second one has been over polished. So much so that the logo and writing has been polished away. It looks like it is the same case back so probably genuine (the grooves look the same style and position), but just over-polished. It's an indicator that it probably had a bit of wear and tear in it's life causing deep scratches, this has then been polished in an attempt to make it look new again. Obviously an over-polished watch is generally worth less than a clean original case.
    ben.

  11. #10
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    Re: Help with my first purchase

    Hi here,

    Quote Originally Posted by HOROLOGIST007 View Post
    The OMEGA although Roland says "seriously corroded" looks very good to me. I suspect Roland is implying that its so heavily polished that it must have been corroded - not sure
    Look at the deep corrosion pits on the back side. If these are also polished away, the whole case would vanish.

    Regards, Roland Ranfft

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