Help with Universal Geneve
Like Tree8Likes

Thread: Help with Universal Geneve

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    london
    Posts
    120

    Help with Universal Geneve

    Hi All,
    I am just trying to find out if this Universal Geneve cal 263 is military or not as it has the engraving 1030307 on the case back?
    Going by the smaller seven digit numbers on the case back 1034187, I understand that this was produced in 1943. The number above 20724 is either a reference number or patent number?
    I will be replacing the crown.
    I would really appreciate any information given. I have posted this in both military and vintage forums
    Many thanks
    Lee
    Attached Images Attached Images





    Last edited by eldridge; August 17th, 2015 at 15:46.

  2. #2
    Member mkws's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,682

    Re: Help with Universal Geneve

    On one hand, the engraving does look military, on the other hand- it doesn't follow any type of military markings that I'm familiar with.
    Here's a good resource on military watch markings:
    http://german242.com/books/military_...e_markings.pdf
    bobbee likes this.
    I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it.
    Edgar Allan Poe

    If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
    George Orwell

    Villains who twirl their moustaches are easy to spot. Those who clothe themselves in good deeds are well-camouflaged.
    Capt. Jean-Luc Picard (Star Trek: The Next Generation)

    For any inquiries regarding vintage Doxa watches, please read the highlighted text in my vintage Doxa thread. Sorry, but I will not respond to PMs on the matter.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    london
    Posts
    120

    Re: Help with Universal Geneve

    Thank you very much mkws! The pdf is great source of info for future use!
    I agree with you, The watch does send mixed messages. The number in question on the back looks like it was engraved professionally and of course I try to be aware that there are sellers out there who want to add the military markings to add value.
    I know the Dutch used UG watches in the past but there was normally a royal Dutch motif on the dial.UG also don’t seem to be on the ‘dirty dozen’ list of british purchased watchs that I have seen?


  4. Remove Advertisements
    WatchUSeek.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Member busmatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    King's Lynn
    Posts
    5,435

    Re: Help with Universal Geneve

    I think the Dutch military used Universal Geneve in WW2 but they followed the British and German patterns of black dials and luminous hands and numerals like this


    Matt


    Brought to you by HYPNOTOAD
    " I can't wear this uniform, without some compromises "
    Chesney Hawkes


    "I larf, I Larf, I wee I pants, I make I leg go rusty."
    ​Me

  6. #5
    Member mkws's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,682

    Re: Help with Universal Geneve

    Quote Originally Posted by eldridge View Post
    Thank you very much mkws! The pdf is great source of info for future use!
    I agree with you, The watch does send mixed messages. The number in question on the back looks like it was engraved professionally and of course I try to be aware that there are sellers out there who want to add the military markings to add value.
    I know the Dutch used UG watches in the past but there was normally a royal Dutch motif on the dial.UG also don’t seem to be on the ‘dirty dozen’ list of british purchased watchs that I have seen?
    There wasn't a Universal Geneve WWW. I think there wasn't an ATP Universal Geneve either. One thing's pretty much for certain- your UG is not of British military issue. No "broad arrow" mark on it, first of all. I am not convinced if it is military at all. Luminous hands and numerals don't make a watch "military". I mean, it might have been issued as a part of service equipment, but not necessarily in the military. Truth be told, I have no idea where would that be, but I believe it's more likely that this piece is entirely civilian.
    busmatt likes this.
    I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it.
    Edgar Allan Poe

    If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
    George Orwell

    Villains who twirl their moustaches are easy to spot. Those who clothe themselves in good deeds are well-camouflaged.
    Capt. Jean-Luc Picard (Star Trek: The Next Generation)

    For any inquiries regarding vintage Doxa watches, please read the highlighted text in my vintage Doxa thread. Sorry, but I will not respond to PMs on the matter.

  7. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    london
    Posts
    120

    Re: Help with Universal Geneve

    Quote Originally Posted by mkws View Post
    There wasn't a Universal Geneve WWW. I think there wasn't an ATP Universal Geneve either. One thing's pretty much for certain- your UG is not of British military issue. No "broad arrow" mark on it, first of all. I am not convinced if it is military at all. Luminous hands and numerals don't make a watch "military". I mean, it might have been issued as a part of service equipment, but not necessarily in the military. Truth be told, I have no idea where would that be, but I believe it's more likely that this piece is entirely civilian.
    Yes, you maybe correct? I think there are a couple of possibilities. Either the watch was a government/organisation issue equipment or the dial was changed after ww2 to look like a civilian model. Or its been engraved to make it look military to add value or its possibly a Frankenstein watch?

  8. #7
    Vint. Forum Co-Moderator Mirius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Surrey, UK
    Posts
    3,601

    Re: Help with Universal Geneve

    Or perhaps more likely it was an entirely civilian purchase by someone who had a military connection and they had the number engraved.
    busmatt likes this.


  9. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    london
    Posts
    120

    Re: Help with Universal Geneve

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirius View Post
    Or perhaps more likely it was an entirely civilian purchase by someone who had a military connection and they had the number engraved.

    Thanks for that. As the watch is dated to 1943, it is plausible that someone serving in the forces purchased their own watch and had their service/staff number engraved on the back?

    doing a quick search shows that 7 digits were often used by the British army.
    Last edited by eldridge; August 18th, 2015 at 16:24.
    busmatt likes this.

  10. #9
    Member mkws's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,682

    Re: Help with Universal Geneve

    Quote Originally Posted by eldridge View Post
    Thanks for that. As the watch is dated to 1943, it is plausible that someone serving in the forces purchased their own watch and had their service/staff number engraved on the back?

    doing a quick search shows that 7 digits were often used by the British army.
    Plausible, if the watch would have been purchased in the winter of 1944/1945. But even then, the WWW were just being introduced and issued, so why bring your own watch... I honestly don't know how a watch would have made it to the Isles from Switzerland in 1943, in the midst of a war.
    One practice of stamping a military issue number on a non-military watch that I am familiar with was the case of the German army running short on equipment at the end of the war- they have "confiscated" (stolen) watches from civilians and stamped them with the D-something-something-H numbers, but that's definitely not one of these watches.
    busmatt likes this.
    I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it.
    Edgar Allan Poe

    If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
    George Orwell

    Villains who twirl their moustaches are easy to spot. Those who clothe themselves in good deeds are well-camouflaged.
    Capt. Jean-Luc Picard (Star Trek: The Next Generation)

    For any inquiries regarding vintage Doxa watches, please read the highlighted text in my vintage Doxa thread. Sorry, but I will not respond to PMs on the matter.

  11. #10
    Vint. Forum Co-Moderator Mirius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Surrey, UK
    Posts
    3,601

    Re: Help with Universal Geneve

    Most of the watches used in WWII were civilian and not WWW. WWW was a restricted issue to those who needed them and were not as far as I'm aware issued to all of the rank and file.

    Switzerland was neutral and supplied both sides so there were established supply routes for watches.
    busmatt likes this.


Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

    Similar Threads

    1. Universal Geneve
      By Kornel Bablonkay in forum Vintage & Pocket watches
      Replies: 25
      Last Post: August 9th, 2017, 09:54
    2. Universal Geneve
      By dighnoel in forum Ladies' Watches
      Replies: 6
      Last Post: April 17th, 2012, 18:16
    3. Universal Geneve
      By civic98 in forum Vintage & Pocket watches
      Replies: 2
      Last Post: July 10th, 2009, 12:21
    4. Universal Geneve
      By louis in forum Public Forum
      Replies: 5
      Last Post: March 13th, 2009, 17:21
    5. FS:Universal Geneve
      By Steve356 in forum Watches - Private sellers and Sponsors
      Replies: 0
      Last Post: December 7th, 2006, 04:15

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •