ID Alpina pocket watch

Thread: ID Alpina pocket watch

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  1. #1
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    ID Alpina pocket watch

    I have run into a brick wall with this one.
    I think whoever last serviced it many decades ago must have forgotten to oil the top pivot of the escape wheel. All the other wheels are fine but the escape wheel top pivot is 80% cut through.
    So, I need an escape wheel and would like a balance staff (it is lightly scored but quite able to be repolished ) although that is not as critical as the escape wheel.
    I have tried everywhere in Australia and scoured the net, but I cannot identify the movement.
    It is branded Alpina on the movement and dial, but I know they used movements from a number of other makers.

    It is in a gorgeous 14k hunter case and would be a real shame to have it probably end up being scrapped if I can't repair it for its sentimental owner.

    It is about 19 ligne; 42.95mm main plate diameter and 40.8mm across the back bridges.
    It is quite slim, 3.9mm excluding the canon pinion or 5.7mm including canon pinion.

    Once again, over to the collective wisdom of the best and most experienced minds I know of.
    Many thanks,
    John
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  2. #2
    Zenith Forum Co-moderator
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    Re: ID Alpina pocket watch

    To me, it looks rather like the Cal. 332 (17''') or the Cal. 410 (19''') in Ranfft:

    bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Alpina 332

    bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Alpina 410

    Sure enough, there are some differences, particularly in the keyless works. However, both of those are crown wound and set whereas you seem to have a pin set movement (extra bit sticking out next to the crown stem). I would therefore not exclude the possibility that yours is a predecessor of one of those two movements. If only the setting mechanism has changed, there is a decent chance that the escapement wheel and balance staff will be the same. Measure the movement out and let us know what the result is. Good luck!

    Hartmut Richter

  3. #3
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    Re: ID Alpina pocket watch

    Thank you very much for your time Hartmut,


    Mine is crown wound and set, the pin that you see is only a locating pin which goes into a hole in the case.
    I had compared it the Alpina 442 which is very similar but I found a few differences.

    Obviously the keyless mechanism is quite different.
    The dial holes and dial screws are close, but definitely slightly differently located.
    The click is different, although it is in the right position.
    The diameter is correct, but the thickness is not.

    The dimensions of mine are:
    42.95mm main plate diameter and 40.8mm across the back bridges.
    3.9mm thick excluding the canon pinion or 5.7mm including canon pinion.

    The main thing that worries me is that Dr. Ranfft has the 442 being 5.15mm thick. Would that be just the plates or including the canon pinion? If the one he has photographed and measured has a particularly short canon pinion it may be that the balance and train are the same as mine.
    If his measurement of 5.15mm is of the plates only, then I would not expect any wheels to be interchangeable.

    Regards,

    John

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  5. #4
    Member pithy's Avatar
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    Re: ID Alpina pocket watch

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddo_in_Oz View Post
    . . . . . . . . All the other wheels are fine but the escape wheel top pivot is 80% cut through. . . . .
    Have you considered just repivotting it? It is a pocket watch after all. p
    Courtesy of ULF.

  6. #5
    Zenith Forum Co-moderator
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    Re: ID Alpina pocket watch

    I do not know for certain but very much suspect that movement dimensions generally do not include the cannon pinion since this goes through the dial and holds the hands. In that sense, it is more part of the "display" than the movement itself.....

    Hartmut Richter

  7. #6
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    Re: ID Alpina pocket watch

    Hartmut,
    I am sorry, I got my calibres mixed up when replying to your last post.

    Where I have put cal 442, it should have been cal 410 as per your original reply.

    I have been concentrating on the escape wheel, but I had the balance wheel under the microscope today.
    The wear on both pivots is a bit more than I originally thought and I am 95% sure I will have to replace the staff. To cut back and polish the pivots would mean that they become too thin and much more fragile, plus I would really have to replace both balance jewels.
    As pithy suggested, I can repivot the escape wheel, but I would always prefer to replace a wheel (if possible)rather than repair it.


    I will contact Dr Ranfft and confirm exactly what components were included in his height measurement.

    Thank you both for your time,

    John

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