Interesting trench watch case -- ID?
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  1. #1
    Member chronophobia's Avatar
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    Interesting trench watch case -- ID?

    Hi, friends.

    In my chronic eBay searching, I spotted an interesting trench watch case that was put together in a way I hadn't seen before. (Admittedly, I haven't been in the game for very long.) The movement hinges out of the front of the case in a manner reminiscent of models developed by Borgel. Except the crown is on the hinge side. One would think they perhaps borrowed from Borgel and used a two-part winding stem, thus keeping the stem from snapping, but then you'd expect to see a pin for setting the hands.

    I have a feeling that the reason we don't see this style very often is probably the same reason that this one is missing its crown and stem. However they got this to work, it didn't work that well.

    Anyway, I could theorize all day but perhaps one of you recognizes this guy. I meant to bid on it, but then I forgot about it and it sold this morning for $60. C'est la vie.

    Name:  $T2eC16d,!zcFIeMP4q2rBSQshFRzig~~60_3.JPG
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    Name:  $T2eC16Z,!y8E9s2flCZNBSQshf3y0!~~60_3.JPG
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    Name:  $(KGrHqF,!qcFIh46kS73BSQshnDV2g~~60_3.JPG
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    Name:  $T2eC16V,!zUFIb38gKiPBSQshjK-Rw~~60_3.JPG
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    The listing: 1914 1st World War Silver Rode Watch Co Officers Watch Good Running Watch | eBay
    Last edited by chronophobia; October 3rd, 2013 at 18:44.

  2. #2
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting trench watch case -- ID?

    hI
    I can not open the links
    There was a number of Borgel designs and patents.
    Only the early patents 1891 to 1903 by Francois Borgel used the 2 piece screw in bezel/movement.

    Later (1916, 17,19 and 1921) Borgel's daughter and an employee Charles Rothen patented 'improved' designs where the movement was hinged to the case. these were termed 'Semi-hermetic' versus the original Borgel case that was termed 'sealed'
    Fully hermetic came next with Gruen 1918 and Jean Finger (1921)
    and finally the Rolex 'oyster' in 1926

    I can post pictures of all the examples if you need.

    REgards
    Last edited by HOROLOGIST007; October 3rd, 2013 at 18:33.
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

  3. #3
    Member chronophobia's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting trench watch case -- ID?

    Sorry about the links. I attached the files as pictures but they linked instead. They open for me but I guess not for others.

    I highly doubt the case is Borgel, as I don't see the typical hallmark and it doesn't look like any of the Borgels I've seen, including those on David Boettcher's website.

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  5. #4
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting trench watch case -- ID?

    Quote Originally Posted by chronophobia View Post
    Sorry about the links. I attached the files as pictures but they linked instead. They open for me but I guess not for others.

    I highly doubt the case is Borgel, as I don't see the typical hallmark and it doesn't look like any of the Borgels I've seen, including those on David Boettcher's website.
    Well David' site is excellent - no doubt to that.

    all I was doing was giving a small oversight of the development from 'sealed' to fully 'hermetic'

    For certain if it is a Borgel case it will have the FB logo
    A
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

  6. #5
    Member chronophobia's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting trench watch case -- ID?

    It's possible that there's an FB logo up there somewhere, lost in the blur-shadow-reflection in that photo. Looks like there may be something.......but I don't think it's FB

    Speaking of hermetic cases, the seller had another simultaneous auction that was super nice, and the final price reflected it...
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/131002840719
    Last edited by chronophobia; October 3rd, 2013 at 18:55.

  7. #6
    Member chronophobia's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting trench watch case -- ID?

    Quote Originally Posted by HOROLOGIST007 View Post
    all I was doing was giving a small oversight of the development from 'sealed' to fully 'hermetic'
    I certainly appreciate the information! Thanks and sorry if I sounded ungrateful.

  8. #7
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting trench watch case -- ID?

    Quote Originally Posted by chronophobia View Post
    It's possible that there's an FB logo up there somewhere, lost in the blur-shadow-reflection in that photo. Looks like there may be something.......but I don't think it's FB

    Speaking of hermetic cases, the seller had another simultaneous auction that was super nice, and the final price reflected it...
    RARE 1st World War Gents Silver Eberhard Co Waterproof Desert Watch | eBay
    That is a fully hermetic
    First patented by Gruen in 1918(a)/1919(g) jean Finger in 1921
    Also Rolex patented more or less identical in 1922

    I have a few variations - here is my MARVIN










    This was NOT a FB patent!

    regards
    adam
    Last edited by HOROLOGIST007; October 3rd, 2013 at 19:02.
    radger likes this.
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

  9. #8
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    Re: Interesting trench watch case -- ID?

    Interesting watch.

    Interesting to me as it has a movement that I tried to identify years ago and this is the first
    time I've saw another example of this movement since....

    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f11/vin...on-199169.html

  10. #9
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting trench watch case -- ID?

    Here is another variation to above:









    radger likes this.
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

  11. #10
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: Interesting trench watch case -- ID?

    Quote Originally Posted by radger View Post
    Interesting watch.

    Interesting to me as it has a movement that I tried to identify years ago and this is the first
    time I've saw another example of this movement since....

    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f11/vin...on-199169.html
    SILVER CASE SIGNED DOUBLE BOTTIER BREVET + 89276 WITH JF MAKERS MARK AND SWISS 935 SILVER HALLMARKS.THE FRONT COVER UNSCREWS NICELY,THE MOVEMENT HINGE AND SWIVEL LUGS ARE STRONG.HAS WEAR SCRATCHES AND MARKS.
    This is Jean Finger patent of 1921
    Swiss movement
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

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