J.DentLondon a serious wholeseller for osman pocket watches or fiction and product placement ?
Like Tree5Likes
  • 1 Post By SilkeN
  • 1 Post By Hartmut Richter
  • 2 Post By Emre
  • 1 Post By SilkeN

Thread: J.DentLondon a serious wholeseller for osman pocket watches or fiction and product placement ?

Results 1 to 5 of 5
  1. #1
    Member SilkeN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,591

    J.DentLondon a serious wholeseller for osman pocket watches or fiction and product placement ?

    If you look at watch markets or at ebay for pocket watches you'll see a quite high number of these colorful imposing osman pocket watches with senceless glas beat decoration on the bridges which simulate capstones on the wheel bearings. Usually these watches are 15 jewel movements with midgrade quality 1880 but still sold until 1920.
    Beyond collectors the fairy story excist that this are all billodes but the sign of differend makers and differences in details speaks another language. But this isn't the topic here. On many of these watches you find the name : "J. Dent London" sometimes on the dial and if its there definetly on the bridge over the rachet wheel. Like on these watch in top condition (with friendly permission of Mani L.) :

    Name:  Jdent.jpg
Views: 141
Size:  101.5 KB
    Name:  Jdentsultandeckel.jpg
Views: 133
Size:  98.3 KB
    Name:  Jdentwerk.jpg
Views: 128
Size:  133.6 KB

    Dependent on mikrolisk I count the differend out of ebay makersigns which use J.Dent . The result was:

    - 6x K.Serkisof & Cie (J.Dent only on the bridge inside / import sign serkisof konstantinopel)
    - 4x Louis Perret signs reg. 1834 und 1909
    - 4x Otto Wiederecht / or L. A. Mairot Freres (reg. 1891 /and 1901)
    - 1x definetly Otto Wiederecht (reg. 1894)
    - 1x Jacot freres 1x´(Tunnel 1881 reg.)
    - 1x another watch in osman style but complete different movement "Tour de Salonique" / unknown maker
    - 1x Billodes ( George Favre Jacot movement Werk) with J.Dent on dial and bridge
    - 3x J.Dent without any additional maker signs

    Here are at least 6 makers who use J.Dent as a label or importeur. I'm not able to understand why a long transport with tax and papers to london and than to constantinopel or another osman place make any sence. If you look on the casecover it might race up also problems with these "english hallmark fakes".
    Therefore I personal think its just a phantom maybe by the makers or the turkish importeurs. This make sence, because english pocket watches enjoyed at the time an excellent reputation. If I'm right I think its crazy that they all use the same name and you find enough watches without J.Dent.

    Any ideas or facts to understand why what was then made, are required

    Kind regards Silke

    P.S. Sorry to all collectors of fine english pw ..I dont forget the E. ...these are really other watch high lights.
    bobbee likes this.
    That's what I think about today:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlUGeY7MWVo

  2. #2
    Zenith Forum Co-moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    17,074

    Re: J.DentLondon a serious wholeseller for osman pocket watches or fiction and product placement ?

    Leaving aside the hallmarks on the movement, when you look at these movements dial side (and to a certain extent even the movement side), you see differences between the real Billodes movements (i.e. those actually signed "Billodes" and in watches with that name or another George Favre-Jacot on case and/or dial) and these Ottoman watches. There are therefore to my mind two possibilities:

    1. There is more than one generation of "Billodes" movements of the same type (somewhat like the ETA 2892 which went to the ETA 2892-2 and now the ETA 2892-A2)
    2. There are copies of this particular "Billodes" movement by other makers. They aren't true fakes since the hallmark hasn't been copied but their legitimacy is at least borderline

    Hartmut Richter
    bobbee likes this.

  3. #3
    Member SilkeN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,591

    Re: J.DentLondon a serious wholeseller for osman pocket watches or fiction and product placement ?

    I agree completely with you. Depending on the high numbers of this watch type I personal prefer differend rawmovement makers but I hope to get an answer. I send mine to a swedish friend who owns himself some of those watches and he has an excellent knowledge about movements and their timeline. If he found nothing with evidence I guess it won't be possible and we can suggest the next 120 years .
    But the J. Dent "goast" is another questionable point. I guess its borderline serious as the nearly hallmarks and glas beats but I hope someone can enlighten this mess.

    Kind regards Silke
    That's what I think about today:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlUGeY7MWVo

  4. Remove Advertisements
    WatchUSeek.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Member Emre's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Istanbul-Dubai-Varna
    Posts
    3,362

    Re: J.DentLondon a serious wholeseller for osman pocket watches or fiction and product placement ?

    Sometimes I think I should have gone also into this direction and educate myself more about the Ottoman market watches.

    The photo you've posted has that ' Serkisof' mark on the plate. Agree that many think Billodes was dominating that market back then. There are many fake hallmarks and faked English looking cheaper Swiss watches from that era in the Ottoman market ( from Baghdad to Thessaloniki ).

    Back in the times when Breguet was a good friend of the Ottoman ambassador, the favourite watchmakers of the Turks were French-clocks and watches were even a key present for France to gain exclusive rights for trade in Ottoman lands - which was not granted to other European countries for a long time.Famous French writer and philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau's father, watchmaker Isaac Rousseau was in charge of the watches and clocks in the Sultan's Palace for a good while.Later favourite watchmakers switched to the other side of the canal, to Britain.

    When Swiss arouse I think they didn't have a lot room to maneuver and somebody came up with the idea of English look alike Swiss watches and possible hallmarks.Something similar to what they did while entering the American market with finding similar names to big American watchmaking company names like Hampden/Hampton,Elgin/Elfin,Illinois Bunn Special/Benn Special.I don't know how long it took them until really Billodes entered the market with decent watches.Longines is another popular brand from those times.

    Serkisoff was pretty active in Constantinopel.Not sure though who sold all this cheaper watches in that market but this guy looks like a key player:)

    1x Jacot freres 1x´(Tunnel 1881 reg.)

    'Tunnel' is the area where the Galata Tower in Istanbul is, it was the Genoan region and that tower was made by them.The bankers and juwelliers were living there and it was the Dow Jones of its time :) Jacot Freres might have been an importer of watches not sure.

    I just thought maybe putting together my bits and pieces might bring another brick and we can build something up. Wish you luck Silke :)

    Add/edit:

    In the Turkish watch forum a member who seems to be educated about these watches says that the company name was ' J.Dent London & Serkisof', this might explain a small part of the consfusion. He mentions also that there were some brands registered on their names so as: A.B.C., Sultan, Serpos...He continues mentioning that these were contracted manufacture in Switzerland and very similar to Billodes movements and he won't call them fake but also not high grade movements,evaluates them as a good entrepreneurship.
    Last edited by Emre; March 16th, 2015 at 23:30.
    SilkeN and bobbee like this.

  6. #5
    Member SilkeN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,591

    Re: J.DentLondon a serious wholeseller for osman pocket watches or fiction and product placement ?

    Wow that are interesting informations A "J.Dent London & Serkisof" company explain a lot. Never heard about this. Really gread.

    I won't call the "others" than billodes not a fake either just a simlar design as nearly all watchmakers made lepine IV and lepine V movements independent if they use rawmovements or make the hole movement by their own. If a design was successful you see it usually from differend makers at this aera "good entrepreneurship".

    Thanks a lot Emre
    Emre likes this.
    That's what I think about today:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlUGeY7MWVo

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

    Similar Threads

    1. Skyfall Product Placement
      By TSC in forum Omega
      Replies: 16
      Last Post: November 13th, 2012, 22:28
    2. Product Placement
      By davey vermaak in forum Breitling
      Replies: 6
      Last Post: August 23rd, 2010, 20:57
    3. Replies: 60
      Last Post: May 18th, 2010, 22:41
    4. Product placement works!
      By marctronixx in forum Suunto
      Replies: 9
      Last Post: September 20th, 2008, 00:39
    5. product placement?
      By redstart in forum Sinn
      Replies: 5
      Last Post: July 22nd, 2006, 00:14

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •