Jack Heuer - An Outstanding Video
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  1. #1
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Jack Heuer - An Outstanding Video

    I found this on WUS from 2014 = OUTSTANDING stuff
    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f25/wat...l#post18544410

    Video is here - MAGNIFICENT
    Watch the Jack Heuer Film- The Times of My Life | The Home of Vintage Heuer Collectors

    Thanks WUS

    Now the book!
    Last edited by HOROLOGIST007; July 28th, 2015 at 02:55.
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    Adam

  2. #2
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    Re: Jack Heuer - An Outstanding Video

    Adam, I think you meant 2014, not 1914
    I just finished watching the film- the story is really great. Especially the way Heuer managed to associate the brand with racing. The words Carrera, Autavia and Monaco speak for themselves... Also, placing the Heuer Monaco in Le Mans was a great move- when Steve McQueen ,"The King of Cool", wore something- whether it's the Persol sunglasses or a Heuer- it just had to become iconic.

    One thing I didn't quite like was how the company after becoming TAG Heuer was presented- that including their most recent watches. There was a mention of the Calibre 1887, which TAG Heuer has declared its new in-house movement, and which turned out to be based on a Seiko...
    Some say that TAG Heuer is just exploiting the former glory of the company that it had when Jack Heuer was in charge. I don't agree with that- the watches at the top of the current model range are the best proof of that attitude towards TAG Heuer being wrong.

    Still, I think that TAG Heuer could do better in their "flagship" range- Carrera. Recently, they have introduced the "Glassbox" Carrera with the telemeter scale. Of course, a beautiful piece, which does have the 1960s looks to it, the domed crystal leaves no doubt about that, but... The movement. This just isn't right. A Sellita automatic with a Dubois-Depraz module. I suddenly felt a lot of sympathy towards the basic chronographs in the Longines Heritage range. Yes, they do have a basic ETA with a module, but cost a third of what a comparable TAG Heuer sells for. With all that heritage in mind, starting with Edouard Heuer and his invention, I think that TAG Heuer is a company which really should know better.

    I don't mind them using Valjoux movements- that's what they have used when there was no "TAG" in the company name, and that's what they do now. I really like some of the Carreras and the Monaco, and I'm OK with Valjoux.

    Truth be told, the Calibre 11 was also a chrono module on a base movement- on the Buren/Hamilton micro-rotor, to be precise. But somehow a Breitling/Heuer module on a Buren micro-rotor automatic movement seems something far better than a very typical Dubois-Depraz on an ETA clone. The latter just seems to be something which would have worked then, but looks a cheap way to trick buyers now. Back then it was about introducing an automatic chronograph as soon as possible- I guess that Heuer just had to compete with Zenith in the same area. Yes, of course the El Primero is way above the cal. 11, but did the average buyer know that? I doubt it.

    In conclusion, I think that TAG Heuer has a great story behind it, as the film shows us. The company and its watches have a few not-so-good things they've done (and IMO they still do), but the same can be said of many other recognizable brands with a comparable reputation.
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  3. #3
    Member davidbuckden's Avatar
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    Re: Jack Heuer - An Outstanding Video

    Thanks 007 - a really good film. As well as the watches, I was very keen on the F1 and Prototypes scene in 1970/71 and Jo was a favourite driver; unfortunately, I was at Brands that day. Shame too that the current 'Heuer' is a shadow of Jack's version!
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  5. #4
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    Re: Jack Heuer - An Outstanding Video

    Strange- Heuer is not the same thing it was back then, and so is the case with F1. I mean, both could do better, but for some reason they are a disappointment.

    TAG Heuer makes some really good watches now, but as I've said- for the Carrera range I would really prefer them to use Valjoux and the cal.1887 (which they should stop calling an in-house movement), rather than the ETA 2892 with a chronograph module, and even worse- its clone, the Sellita. I mean, if they really want a diversification, why not move the Valjoux and 1887 to the models which currently use the movements with modules, and outfit the models which they want to be at the top of the Carrera and Monaco range with a proper in-house calibre or something like a La Joux-Perret 8147-2 -I know it's a modified 7750, but always something a bit different. Baume & Mercier uses the 8147-2 for their Capeland chronograph, which is the only B&M I could say that I like... I'm afraid that TAG Heuer underestimates the buyers who know something about watches in terms of their marketing strategy for the Carrera. Which is not very Jack Heuer of them.

    I wonder if the use of Sellita has something to do with the Swatch Group planning to limit the use of ETA movements to their brands only...
    Last edited by mkws; July 29th, 2015 at 00:18.
    I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it.
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    (...)but that's what mankind is like: they only prize what they no longer possess.
    Erich Maria Remarque

    For any inquiries regarding vintage Doxa watches, please read the highlighted text in my vintage Doxa thread. Sorry, but I will not respond to PMs on the matter.

  6. #5
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: Jack Heuer - An Outstanding Video

    I wonder if the use of Sellita has something to do with the Swatch Group planning to limit the use of ETA movements to their brands only...[/QUOTE]

    of course it is
    and Sellita is a Swiss high quality movements
    a
    busmatt likes this.
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

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    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
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  7. #6
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    Jack Heuer - An Outstanding Video

    Of course, Tag-Heuer has no access to ETA any longer. And Sellita is walking distance from Tag-Heuer's manufacture in La Chaux-de-Fonds.

    But I find this amusing. The original Caliber 11 was a relatively inexpensive Buren (owned by Hamilton at the time) three-hand movement coupled to a Dubois-Depraz module. The current modular movement seems to me entirely in keeping with the original, except that is is much better.

    And the 1887 is made by Tag-Heuer in Switzerland from a design they bought fair and square from Seiko. Their fib was claiming to have designed it, though they certainly did modify the design. But it is legitimately an in-house movement.

    (My Baume & Mercier Capeland Worldtimer has a Sellita SW300 coupled to an IWC world timer module, by the way.)

    Rick "whose mid-90's Heuer 1964 Carrera Re-Edition has a Lemania movement" Denney
    Last edited by Rdenney; July 29th, 2015 at 00:46.
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    Zenith: Captain Chronograph 03.2110.400*; Cartier: Santos 100 XL Concord: Mariner, C1 Big-Date, C1 v.2 Chronograph; Ebel: Chronosport 1134901, Tekton 9137L83*, Type E 9137C41* (*=COSC)
    Ebel: 1911 BTR 9137L73* and 9139L71*, 1911 1120L41*, 1911 Senior 9080241, Brasilias 9120M41 (2), Aquatica 500 9120K61, Classic Hexagon GMT 9301F61, Classic 100 LE 9120R41; Baume & Mercier: Capeland World-Timer
    Heuer: Carrera 1964 Re-Edition CS3110; Maurice Lacroix: Masterpiece MP6439; "Seagull": 1963 Reissue cal. ST19; Seiko: Black Monster SRP307; Poljot: Sturmanskie cal. 3133; Tissot: T-Touch Lew and Huey: Acciona
    Vintage: JLC: ref. 2953, ca. 1946; Longines: Flagship cal 285; Zodiac: SST cal. 86, Aerospace GMT cal. 72; Favre-Leuba: cal. 253; Tianjin: Dong Feng cal. ST5; Elgin: Gr. 152 (1898), Gr. 384 (1919); Ebel: ca. 1962 ref. 9214955
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  8. #7
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    Re: Jack Heuer - An Outstanding Video

    The last line of my post was a bit due to the fact that I don't exactly follow the news from the contemporary watch market- after all, I'm much more into vintage watches. So, how do you all see the future of TAG Heuer in terms of movements? Sellita? The cal. 1887? A new in-house movement? I mean, what happens when the Swatch group cuts off the supply of ETA Valjoux chronographs? I think the SW500 will replace the 7750, though it seems like it's no difference- that's the same movement, isn't it? 25 jewels, 48h power reserve- couldn't be anything else, I think.
    Sellita movements are of course good, but what I find a bit curious is that two major suppliers of generic movements produce the same thing- this wasn't the case back in the day when ETA's main competitor was A. Schild. Nowadays, generic movements seem to be even more generic than before...
    bobbee likes this.
    I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it.
    Edgar Allan Poe

    If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
    George Orwell

    (...)but that's what mankind is like: they only prize what they no longer possess.
    Erich Maria Remarque

    For any inquiries regarding vintage Doxa watches, please read the highlighted text in my vintage Doxa thread. Sorry, but I will not respond to PMs on the matter.

  9. #8
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    Re: Jack Heuer - An Outstanding Video

    I wish that ETA would just pronounce that Sellita now owns rights to the designs of those common movements (given they are public domain anyway) and legitimize what they say they want, which is to not be the industry supermarket.

    Rick "suspecting that's not their real objective" Denney
    Zenith: Captain Chronograph 03.2110.400*; Cartier: Santos 100 XL Concord: Mariner, C1 Big-Date, C1 v.2 Chronograph; Ebel: Chronosport 1134901, Tekton 9137L83*, Type E 9137C41* (*=COSC)
    Ebel: 1911 BTR 9137L73* and 9139L71*, 1911 1120L41*, 1911 Senior 9080241, Brasilias 9120M41 (2), Aquatica 500 9120K61, Classic Hexagon GMT 9301F61, Classic 100 LE 9120R41; Baume & Mercier: Capeland World-Timer
    Heuer: Carrera 1964 Re-Edition CS3110; Maurice Lacroix: Masterpiece MP6439; "Seagull": 1963 Reissue cal. ST19; Seiko: Black Monster SRP307; Poljot: Sturmanskie cal. 3133; Tissot: T-Touch Lew and Huey: Acciona
    Vintage: JLC: ref. 2953, ca. 1946; Longines: Flagship cal 285; Zodiac: SST cal. 86, Aerospace GMT cal. 72; Favre-Leuba: cal. 253; Tianjin: Dong Feng cal. ST5; Elgin: Gr. 152 (1898), Gr. 384 (1919); Ebel: ca. 1962 ref. 9214955
    WUS: ST5 Project Watches (Black and Blue), F72.2014.DG3804 (Gray and Cream); Swatch: Sistem 51 Blue; TNT: Rattrapante cal. Rochat 7750+RAT-1

  10. #9
    Zenith Forum Co-moderator
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    Re: Jack Heuer - An Outstanding Video

    Ehrm, no - Sellita don't own the "rights" to the movements. They have the rights to make the movements - but only because everyone has the rights to make them mow (those rights, formerly with ETA, have by now expired). As a result, there are now even legal chinese copies of these movements.

    Sellita used to clone only the ETA 2824 (Cal. SW200). They now have clones of the three main ETA series of movements: ETA 2824 (Sellita 200 series), ETA 2892 (Sellita 300 series) and ETA/Valjoux 7750 (Sellita 500 series). They have clones of the derivatives too, e.g. the ETA 2836 is the Sellita SW220.

    In the old days, ETA's main competitor was probably Adolf Schild (plus to a lesser extent Felsa). However, these two made entirely different movements to ETA. Sellita make exactly the same movements. This is OK with ETA because they still sell all the movements they make and still make a lot - otherwise they probably wouldn't have let Sellita clone their movements (renew patent rights) or declared that they would continue to supply the entire market and not just Swatch makes. I think that one of the most important questions here is, to what extent ETA movements are still better than their Sellita (or even other) counterparts. I have not seen sufficient comparative tests between ETA and Sellita movements to draw conclusions. What I do know, however, is that when ETA helped Omega with the mass marketing of their coaxial escapement, they developed machinery that reduced the tolerance limits on size and positioning of parts by an order of magnitude (i.e. factor 10). This alone helped increase the acccuracy of movements. And unless Sellita can rival this or come up with improvements of their own, I would expect their movements to be that little bit less high quality than the ETA originals.

    Hartmut Richter

  11. #10
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: Jack Heuer - An Outstanding Video

    Wow! Hartmut
    That is a fantastic informative post.
    Thanks that detailed explanation
    A
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

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