Just how rare is Omega Seamaster Geneve
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    Just how rare is Omega Seamaster Geneve

    I have an Omega Geneve vintage. I see there is also an Omega Seamaster Geneve with Seamaster Geneve on the dial. Anyone knows of any data about how rare these are and whether they were better quality. I understand that the Geneve models may have been derived from these. I can't find any model numbers in the Omega database to describe the model. Was it just marketing to change the name or was there some special quality that the Seamaster Geneve had that the Geneve didn't?

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    Re: Just how rare is Omega Seamaster Geneve

    An in focus photo would help :)
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    Re: Just how rare is Omega Seamaster Geneve

    These were different lines of watches that Omega produced and sometimes they intersected. Mostly it was marketing, but the different lines had different characteristics in general (e.g. some were made to be more dressy, some more water-resistant, some were dressy and water-resistant etc.). There are many variations of "Geneve", "Seamaster", "Seamaster Geneve", "Seamaster De Ville" etc., and I wouldn't say that any are particularly rare or valuable just based on the name alone, at least as far as I know. Desirability is mainly determined by the material/style of the case, quality of the movement, etc. As @laikrodukas mentioned, if you posted comprehensive photos of the watch, including the reference number inside the case-back, as well as the movement, we could probably help you more. It can sometimes be tricky to find things in the Omega database.
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    Re: Just how rare is Omega Seamaster Geneve

    I was looking at this one, there's no info other than gold plated and rare.

    Sorry about the size of photo, it's the sellers

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    Re: Just how rare is Omega Seamaster Geneve

    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy2 View Post
    I have an Omega Geneve vintage. I see there is also an Omega Seamaster Geneve with Seamaster Geneve on the dial. Anyone knows of any data about how rare these are and whether they were better quality. I understand that the Geneve models may have been derived from these.
    No, the Genève model preceded those double-named models by many years. The original Genève was, other than the the 30T2Rg Chronometres, at the top of the hand-wind model line. That status, and the associated quality, ended in the early '60s.
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    Re: Just how rare is Omega Seamaster Geneve

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony C. View Post
    No, the Genève model preceded those double-named models by many years. The original Genève was, other than the the 30T2Rg Chronometres, at the top of the hand-wind model line. That status, and the associated quality, ended in the early '60s.
    I see, the original Geneve, rather than the later Geneve. Thanks for the correction.

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    Re: Just how rare is Omega Seamaster Geneve

    All sellers say their thing is rare, and therefore must be expensive. Usually isn't.

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    Re: Just how rare is Omega Seamaster Geneve

    Rare? Doubt it.

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    Re: Just how rare is Omega Seamaster Geneve

    Not rare. Just one of the ways, that "shared" references were signed.

    Basically, we can break it down to three dial types per collection:
    1. Signed - single collection signature, attributing a watch to one model line (Seamaster, Geneve, De Ville...)
    2. Unsigned - no collection name on the dial. Could be attributed to a collection by means of case back markings (e.g. Seamaster logo on the back), or the reference does not seem to possess any version signed with a different collection name, and it isn't registered under another collection in the OVD (or, for that matter, in Omega's records as such).
    3. Co-signed - two collection names on the dial. The only two examples I know of are the Seamaster De Ville (listed as separate collection, some models were available signed De Ville only) and Seamaster Geneve (not listed as a separate collection in the OVD).
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    Re: Just how rare is Omega Seamaster Geneve

    Quote Originally Posted by mkws View Post
    Not rare. Just one of the ways, that "shared" references were signed.

    Basically, we can break it down to three dial types per collection:
    1. Signed - single collection signature, attributing a watch to one model line (Seamaster, Geneve, De Ville...)
    2. Unsigned - no collection name on the dial. Could be attributed to a collection by means of case back markings (e.g. Seamaster logo on the back), or the reference does not seem to possess any version signed with a different collection name, and it isn't registered under another collection in the OVD (or, for that matter, in Omega's records as such).
    3. Co-signed - two collection names on the dial. The only two examples I know of are the Seamaster De Ville (listed as separate collection, some models were available signed De Ville only) and Seamaster Geneve (not listed as a separate collection in the OVD).

    Thanks. That's informative and helpful. So far, consensus is not rare, thanks all, and I can see that it's not rare as for example the Geneve Chronometer cal 602 is rare with apparently only 4000 produced.
    I am now thinking, in terms of collection, is it rarer or rather so much less common than the Geneve line from the 70s to be worth serious consideration. I see many Geneve advertised as Seamaster Geneve and I wonder whether that is to capitalise on the seamaster name.

    Of the few examples I have come across searching the net, I am seeing the co-signed Seamaster Geneve are from 1966-1968. That would suggest there were much less numbers produced than the single signed (thanks mkws for mentioning the co-signed term, it's much clearer) Seamaster Geneve. So, relatively rarer. Now the question is how much rarer or less common? all things being equal.

    Wish there was a database of production numbers of all the models so I can tell next time I come across a particular version. So, I have spent a little time to come up with a numbers deduction. It's only approximate of course. I am doing this as I type so it will be revealing to me as much as anyone else.

    Assumption: Using a popular serial numbers list found on the net, (a) production number from 66-68 = 3,000,000
    (B) Production numbers from 67-79 = 17,000,000 (I am using overlap in years as an estimate for the single signed version)
    (C) Assumption, from information on the net single signed Geneve models made up to 60 % of Omega sales, and assuming non-flat curve, let's say 40% as an estimate= 6,800,000 pieces of single signed Geneve model.
    (D) Assumption 20% production numbers are of co-signed Seamaster Geneve (this is only an estimate as I would expect the sales of a new line to take time to get to its maximum). Thus = 600,000 copies
    Thus, co-signed Seamaster Geneve is at least 10x less common or 10x rarer than the Omega Geneve line.

    Does that sound about right, or if anyone have better insight of data and would like to make the calculations more accurate.
    It's purely numbers of course and other characteristics have to be taken into account when deciding on collectability and rarity.

    I guess the test would be if you had the choice, all things being equal, similar caliber, similar case design and caliber number, which would you rather have, one in the millions or on in the 100,000s.
    With variations such as case material, dial design, caliber number, etc, say 10 % contribution to the overall numbers for each, that would give a figure of 680,000 vs 60,000 pieces. Hmnn, this exercise was worth doing I think.

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