Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ?Monopoussoir? Chronograph
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  1. #1
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

    I own a couple of early chronographs including this HEUER - it uses a Landeron movement, metal dial from the 20s?



    But my love on single button or 'mono-pusher' chronographs especially with a white enamel dial and the red centre 'tachymeter' scale - so I bough this:
    1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

    I can only find a tiny history of the company, and hope someone can identify the movement?

    History: Mathez, Paul-Virgile, SA, Montres – SABINA, Tramelan-Dessus
    Virgile Mathey registered the ‘VM’ trade mark in 1888. Offered high and good standard quality timepieces.

    Here is the watch:













    If anyone can help on movement - greatly appreciated

    adam
    Last edited by HOROLOGIST007; June 11th, 2013 at 16:57.
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

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    Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

    Great looking old single button chrono Adam.
    The watch looks to be in lovely condition, great dial, Is this a silver case?

    Not sure about that 'Heuer' though, doesn't look right to my eye.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

    Quote Originally Posted by radger View Post
    Great looking old single button chrono Adam.
    The watch looks to be in lovely condition, great dial, Is this a silver case?

    Not sure about that 'Heuer' though, doesn't look right to my eye.
    Hi Radger thanks
    The Sabina to me is 100% original except the crown.
    The case is plated, and has been 'machined' plished I believe.

    The HEUER is 100% correct (dial/movement/hands) - I had the case replated as it was in a very poor condition. I do not normally do anything like that, but the case was going green with mold.
    It looks very good on


    Re-Plated Case


    BUT
    The SABINA is just lovely.
    Thanks again. Any idea of the movement?
    nome93 likes this.
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

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  5. #4
    Member radger's Avatar
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    Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

    Quote Originally Posted by HOROLOGIST007 View Post
    The HEUER is 100% correct (dial/movement/hands) - I had the case replated as it was in a very poor condition. I do not normally do anything like that, but the case was going green with mold.
    It looks very good on
    Re-Plated Case
    BUT
    The SABINA is just lovely.
    Thanks again. Any idea of the movement?
    I agree that the Sabina is lovely and is correct, the crown is a good match and correct style.
    Can't place the movement but it's nice quality.

    As to the Heuer, yes it looks very good on.

    The chrono secs hand is far too long for this dial and obviously incorrect.
    The dial looks an obvious repaint to me, it is not of character with the case or
    style looking to modern.

    The subdial indices are off centered and the diameter of these sub dials are too small for the recesses.

    The print is poor, the Heuer logo looks heavy and incorrect with the lettering too high almost touching
    the top of the cartouche.

    The sub dial secs hand is too long for the dial as is the minute hand.
    17 jewels antimagnetic printed on the dial, what's all that about?
    I've never saw that printed on a Heuer purporting to be this vintage before, don't think I've ever saw that printed
    on Heuer of any vintage.

    The mistakes in the dial and hands which I've highlighted are not what you'ld expect of a genuine Heuer, what makes you think
    it is 100% correct?

    The movement doesn't seem to be marked Heuer, what about inside the caseback.

  6. #5
    Member Sparcster's Avatar
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    Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

    Very nice Adam,

    Agree about the Heuer... the dial (from the pics) looks a little off... may just be the pics?

    The Sabina looks stunning!

    Movement? possible early Hanhart or Landeron? Reminded me of a Hanhart.... searching came up with this...



    The right hand movement looks similar - what diameter is it?

    again... very nice!
    A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away...

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  7. #6
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

    Quote Originally Posted by radger View Post
    I agree that the Sabina is lovely and is correct, the crown is a good match and correct style.
    Can't place the movement but it's nice quality.

    As to the Heuer, yes it looks very good on.

    The chrono secs hand is far too long for this dial and obviously incorrect.
    The dial looks an obvious repaint to me, it is not of character with the case or
    style looking to modern.

    The subdial indices are off centered and the diameter of these sub dials are too small for the recesses.

    The print is poor, the Heuer logo looks heavy and incorrect with the lettering too high almost touching
    the top of the cartouche.

    The sub dial secs hand is too long for the dial as is the minute hand.
    17 jewels antimagnetic printed on the dial, what's all that about?
    I've never saw that printed on a Heuer purporting to be this vintage before, don't think I've ever saw that printed
    on Heuer of any vintage.

    The mistakes in the dial and hands which I've highlighted are not what you'ld expect of a genuine Heuer, what makes you think
    it is 100% correct?

    The movement doesn't seem to be marked Heuer, what about inside the caseback.
    No, no markings anywhere.
    Why do I think its genuine? Just my gut feel, and I have shown it to other really knowledgeable Horologists and they felt so too.
    But no evidence at all.
    I take all your points - and appreciate them - and I agree the dial may be a rework.
    Thanks
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

  8. #7
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparcster View Post
    Very nice Adam,

    Agree about the Heuer... the dial (from the pics) looks a little off... may just be the pics?

    The Sabina looks stunning!

    Movement? possible early Hanhart or Landeron? Reminded me of a Hanhart.... searching came up with this...



    The right hand movement looks similar - what diameter is it?

    again... very nice!
    Hi Marc
    Thanks your comments and research
    I 'think' its a Landeron movement just because of the way Landeron 2 button pushers work - but just a simple guess.
    There are differences between the Sabina movement and your picture, its close but not identical.
    Will measure the movement and post back

    I REALLY appreciate your efforts and comments.

    Regards
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

  9. #8
    Member Sparcster's Avatar
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    Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

    Quote Originally Posted by HOROLOGIST007 View Post
    its close but not identical.
    Hi Adam,

    I agree... not identical, but similar! Info on these early Landeron Chronographs appear to be limited (from what I could find). But I have limited knowledge on early chronos anyway.

    Good luck!
    A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away...

    Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    Twitter: quickpicmarc

  10. #9
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    Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparcster View Post
    Hi Adam,

    I agree... not identical, but similar! Info on these early Landeron Chronographs appear to be limited (from what I could find). But I have limited knowledge on early chronos anyway.

    Good luck!
    Thanks me too, few seem to have a great knowledge on early chronos
    Hopefully Roland will pass by

    Thanks again
    adam
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

  11. #10
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    Re: Latest Aquisition -1920s SABINA ‘Monopoussoir’ Chronograph

    love the Sabina !
    would say Landeron 3 ? (though it says 2 3 on the ebauche), is it 15.5 ligne ?


    +1 on the Heuer, nice, but dial seems refinished to me
    Last edited by WatchFred; June 12th, 2013 at 16:58.

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