Le Locle Swiss Pocketwatch Help
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Thread: Le Locle Swiss Pocketwatch Help

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  1. #1
    Member Perdendosi's Avatar
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    Le Locle Swiss Pocketwatch Help

    Greetings folks!
    A friend asked me to research a family pocket watch.
    He says that on the inside of the movement cover (which he didn't take pictures of) is 8862 0
    and 18K stamped on the inside and outside of front cover.
    It's from Le Locle, "Full Jewelled" and "Patent Lever"


    I'm guessing that one of the hands has been replaced, but that it's turn-of-the-century or perhaps a bit earlier, from Le Locle. Maybe it's a private label using a Perret-family movement (see links below). But I'm shocked at what good condition, and good quality it is. All the detailing on the case is still intact! And in comparison to the examples I found in the MWACC database, the movement is in fantastic shape, and has been decorated, too.

    Can anyone fill in any more info? Or should I send my friend to the Museum?


    Thanks!

    His watch:
    Name:  F2BC20F8-12FF-4538-8902-C577322DFAA97CE47122-D3A3-4222-9B73-B22E6C0D972D.jpg
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    A few with really similar movements.

    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f11/kno...re-812350.html
    Watch, Pocket - 83.82.1038
    Watch, Pocket - 83.82.1548
    Watch, Pocket - 83.82.1863
    Watch, Pocket - 78.52.2

    Anything more anyone can say?
    SilkeN likes this.


    - Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.

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  2. #2
    Zenith Forum Co-moderator
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    Re: Le Locle Swiss Pocketwatch Help

    Your watch has a key wounds and set movement from the Le Locle area of a general style that was popular around that time (ca. 1860-1880). Technically, that style is known as the "Lepine V" type of movement but it will be difficult to ascertain the exact maker now. Here are some more examples from Ranfft's database:

    bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: At. Brossard 18'''

    bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: J.F.Cooper 20'''

    bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Molyneaux

    ...plus one in that style, but with a cylindre escapement:

    bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Thompson 15'''

    Hartmut Richter
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  3. #3
    Member Perdendosi's Avatar
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    Re: Le Locle Swiss Pocketwatch Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Hartmut Richter View Post
    Your watch has a key wounds and set movement from the Le Locle area of a general style that was popular around that time (ca. 1860-1880). Technically, that style is known as the "Lepine V" type of movement but it will be difficult to ascertain the exact maker now. Here are some more examples from Ranfft's database:

    bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: At. Brossard 18'''

    bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: J.F.Cooper 20'''

    bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Molyneaux

    ...plus one in that style, but with a cylindre escapement:

    bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Thompson 15'''

    Hartmut Richter

    Thank you so much Hartmut!
    Would the decoration have been done by a jeweler, or by the movement manufacturer?
    And the "Bourquin" engraving? Once again the name of a jeweler who ordered the movement, rather than the watch manufacturer?


    - Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.

    Current collection:
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  5. #4
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    Re: Le Locle Swiss Pocketwatch Help

    I agree complete with Hartmut and I read U. Bourquin on the dustcover. The only Bourquin I found in Le Locle is a Ulysse Bourquin. He also seems to be active in Senville or a watchmake with an identical name. Unfortunately I didn't found any dates about his active time.
    Really a more than wonderful case with this email applications. The jewels are quite unusual big compared with other watches out of this aera. Depending on the dial style in combination with this movement I would guess a production year 1870 until 1880 but this is not sure. Do you found any gold hallmarks on the case (Helvetia/squirrel). They've been law since 1882 if this watch should sold as a gold watch. The swiss people was very strict and you can be sure if you don't find this marks that this watch was bulid before 1882. Le Locle is a part of Neuchartel and they use own marks no-obligatory but they often use them. Any hints ?

    The minute hand s definetly out of the 1930 and should get changed. This wonderful watch earns it. Simple smal straight brequet hands "old type" would match very well beause you've probably to change both hands.

    Really a well made early Lepine V in a stunning dress
    Kind regards Silke
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  6. #5
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    Re: Le Locle Swiss Pocketwatch Help

    Hi there,

    Quote Originally Posted by Perdendosi View Post
    And the "Bourquin" engraving?
    The name of the maker. There were lots of Bourquinsin West Switzerland (likely a name like Smith there), but only one in Le Locle. Unfortunately nothing is known about him, except a watch with the signature "Ulysse Bourquin Locle". Yours is the second known sample though, and the next 100 will make him famous.

    Consider how most watches were made in Switzerland back then. Often tiny workshops, occasionally even single persons bought ebauches (kits) from a factory and finished them. Watchmakers could earn their living by finishing one or two quality watches a year. No surprise though that many are only known through few survived watches.

    Regards, Roland Ranfft

  7. #6
    Member Perdendosi's Avatar
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    Re: Le Locle Swiss Pocketwatch Help

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkeN View Post
    I agree complete with Hartmut and I read U. Bourquin on the dustcover. The only Bourquin I found in Le Locle is a Ulysse Bourquin. He also seems to be active in Senville or a watchmake with an identical name. Unfortunately I didn't found any dates about his active time.
    Really a more than wonderful case with this email applications. The jewels are quite unusual big compared with other watches out of this aera. Depending on the dial style in combination with this movement I would guess a production year 1870 until 1880 but this is not sure. Do you found any gold hallmarks on the case (Helvetia/squirrel). They've been law since 1882 if this watch should sold as a gold watch. The swiss people was very strict and you can be sure if you don't find this marks that this watch was bulid before 1882. Le Locle is a part of Neuchartel and they use own marks no-obligatory but they often use them. Any hints ?

    The minute hand s definetly out of the 1930 and should get changed. This wonderful watch earns it. Simple smal straight brequet hands "old type" would match very well beause you've probably to change both hands.

    Really a well made early Lepine V in a stunning dress
    Kind regards Silke
    Quote Originally Posted by Roland Ranfft View Post
    Hi there,


    The name of the maker. There were lots of Bourquinsin West Switzerland (likely a name like Smith there), but only one in Le Locle. Unfortunately nothing is known about him, except a watch with the signature "Ulysse Bourquin Locle". Yours is the second known sample though, and the next 100 will make him famous.

    Consider how most watches were made in Switzerland back then. Often tiny workshops, occasionally even single persons bought ebauches (kits) from a factory and finished them. Watchmakers could earn their living by finishing one or two quality watches a year. No surprise though that many are only known through few survived watches.

    Regards, Roland Ranfft

    Thanks so much Roland and Silke.

    My understanding, then, is that the movement was an ebauche, and M. Bourquin did all the decorating of the case and the movement himself? Where would the ebauche for these Lepine V's have come from?

    I don't have possession of the watch, but my friend claims there are no gold hallmarks. Would someone from 1870 have engraved 18K on it, or is that an indication that perhaps the watch was recased?
    I'll tell him about the Breguet hand replacement. It really is a stunning piece.

    Thanks again for all your help!


    - Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.

    Current collection:
    Oris Big Crown Pointer Date (in red!) | Ball Trainmaster "First Flight" Dual Time | Oris Artix Date | Glycine Airman DC-4 GMT | Christopher Ward C60 600 White Trident | Poljot Journey Chronograph | Nth Naken Renegade | Hamilton Jazzmaster Square | Kronaby Apex | Seiko Save-the-Ocean Samurai | Prometheus Jellyfish Yellow | Spinnaker Bradner | Undone Modern Chrono | Bulova UHF Military 96B229 | Raketa "Big Zero" |

  8. #7
    Member SilkeN's Avatar
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    Re: Le Locle Swiss Pocketwatch Help

    If you are not commun with pocket watches out of this area I guess you think as nowadays they sell a complete movement and make a finish. Within this area they mostly just sell the basic movement without balance and escapement part. Sometimes with jewels sometimes without. This was the job of the watchmaker. As the result you get very simular bridge design and different watches . To work on a watch in division was also commun. There have been part specialist for tenons, lever, cases and so on. This watch is "homework" only the chassis may be with wheels cames probably out of a factory. Its nearly impossible to see what is definetly made by Ulysse Bourquin but probably the main parts. The biggest factory within this aera have been Japy/ France/beaucourt I guess.

    Kind regards Silke
    Last edited by SilkeN; July 21st, 2015 at 09:49.
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