A. Michel SA ebouche/raw movement
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  1. #1
    Member SilkeN's Avatar
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    A. Michel SA ebouche/raw movement

    If someone told me yesterday that I'll look after a AM 453 cylinder escapement movement or quite simular I would have looked at him distraught..but this was yesterday . The reason was a parcel I get without any prior warning by a friend. The startling content were some unfinished watch parts on the left side of the picture:

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    1. parts
    2. bridges together
    3. Spare part AM 453 bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: AM 453 (deformed by encasing ) nearly simular but definetly the same orgin

    the other side:
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    unfortunately by the times someone seems to take the wheels and other parts for his box and only the bridges, minute wheel and changewheel stayed together anymore. Usually these unfinished movements were sold with the complete wheel set. I'm very happy about this present and I'd like to share with you. Personally those parts help me better to understand that a ebouche in this aera and the aera before was much more work for the watchmaker than find/build a case and design a nice dial with matching hands. Of course the customer could order ebouche in very different status of finish.

    I hope you enjoy this litte surprising cheap unfinished piece as I do

    Silke
    That's what I think about today:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlUGeY7MWVo

  2. #2
    Member Border-Reiver's Avatar
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    Re: A. Michel SA ebouche/raw movement

    Oh the movements!... I am still struggling through my pocket watch collection in order to sort things out, and to all abundance, I was infected here to start collecting wrist watches as well. I have the movements (all complete, working, with dial and hands) now all in case holders and little display acrylic cases. I will wait for winter and snow before I try to get everything in order and hopefully identified.

    I was also thinking to get some incomplete movements to take them apart and to learn a little more about the function of a watch, without screwing up one of my goodies.

  3. #3
    Zenith Forum Co-moderator
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    Re: A. Michel SA ebouche/raw movement

    That's interesting - especially because of the middle movement with the "Kasper" (or is it a "Harlequin"?!) on it. I can't find that as an alternative or older stamp for A. Michel. Is it a similar movement by another maker? Or is it an unmarked movement that has the end user's mark applied? In any case, it seems to be a true ebauche (raw movement with just bridges; end user has to source the geartrain, escapement, etc. from elsewhere). The two alternative ways that movements were supplied in the old days were "kits" (whole movement but everything dismantled) or complete movements (assembled and regulated, ready to be installed).

    Hartmut Richter

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  5. #4
    Member Border-Reiver's Avatar
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    Re: A. Michel SA ebouche/raw movement

    Quote Originally Posted by Hartmut Richter View Post
    That's interesting - especially because of the middle movement with the "Kasper" (or is it a "Harlequin"?!) on it. I can't find that as an alternative or older stamp for A. Michel. Is it a similar movement by another maker? Or is it an unmarked movement that has the end user's mark applied? In any case, it seems to be a true ebauche (raw movement with just bridges; end user has to source the geartrain, escapement, etc. from elsewhere). The two alternative ways that movements were supplied in the old days were "kits" (whole movement but everything dismantled) or complete movements (assembled and regulated, ready to be installed).

    Hartmut Richter
    It is not the 'Kasper' logo from 'Kasper-Watches' according to what I see in the Ranfft archives (but very similar):

    bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Kasper & Co., Pforzheim

  6. #5
    Member SilkeN's Avatar
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    Re: A. Michel SA ebouche/raw movement

    I'd searched for the Kasper/Harequin either without any result. I hope Andreas/microlisk can find anything but we'll see.

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    As far as I know the most commun "kid" within this aera were complete dismanteled or ready to install but half finished movements have been available also. Here a higher gade one. It might be 10-20 years younger and I don't know the orgin it might be LeCoultre. Here balance AND escapement is included but not finished. Unfortunately single "kid" parts don't excist anymore:

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    Kind regards Silke
    Last edited by SilkeN; August 13th, 2015 at 23:30.
    radger likes this.
    That's what I think about today:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlUGeY7MWVo

  7. #6
    Member SilkeN's Avatar
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    Re: SA ebouche/raw movements

    HI Border-Reiver you're right. It's a german Kasper raw movement and not a A.Michel. In between I could grab another very intersting rawmovement with a complete lever movement. Just the spiral has to be done by the maker and the balance ring is closed and as well no capstones excist. I think this should be done by the watchmaker if he wants to grade up the chassis for the minute repeater. Unfortunately its just the untouched movement and the gatgetry who had probabbly excist is lost. No marks anywhere and I searched myself a wolf but I can't detect the orgin:

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    as a add on I get a cadaver of a simular movement which has surely the same orgin . Unfortunately no brand marks and less parts than the eouche itself:

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    Any ideas about the orgin are highly welcomed

    Kind regards Silke
    Last edited by SilkeN; October 1st, 2015 at 20:56.
    Emre and radger like this.
    That's what I think about today:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlUGeY7MWVo

  8. #7
    Member Emre's Avatar
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    Re: SA ebouche/raw movements

    Hi Silke, you like challenging movements, don't you? Hunting the truth,joyful.

    Is that a brevet number on the movement in the upper photo ( above the barrel bridge )? Can't make up the numbers from that photo but might help to dig in the patent owner.

    The style looks Audemars-ish to me, but don't ask why, that's just so without any logic argument:)

  9. #8
    Member SilkeN's Avatar
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    Re: SA ebouche/raw movements

    Hallo Emre,
    unfortunately it isn't a brevet number just : Déposé writen. The 50454 is just the movementnumber. On the rest peace the number is 16341 and the only thing I found was 41 beyond the cocks. Unfortunately I wasn't able to look beyond the main plate or the one on the dial side of the springhouse. I didn't understand which screws fix it except the one for the platine.

    Audemars would be a dream but the quality isn't exraordinary even that its a minute repeater ground stuff.

    Of course I like to learn how things/stories happen. I'd found this unfinshed movements and they are a part of the watch making story. The first one I bought to show a friend clearly that ebouche in former times doesn't mean just to put a movement within a case. Now Im fascinated and it helps mself a lot to get a picture in my mind. I hope to find an old rawmovement someday.

    Regards Silke
    radger likes this.
    That's what I think about today:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlUGeY7MWVo

  10. #9
    Member Emre's Avatar
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    Re: SA ebouche/raw movements

    The 50454 brings up a patent related with balance but not sure if the drawing is from a watch/clock or not, maybe you've also looked up but just in case, the surname ' Margot' could bring some other clues:

    Espacenet - Original document
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  11. #10
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    Re: SA ebouche/raw movements

    the repeater was a drawing of A Lugrin and used by Baltic and Angelus
    regards enrico
    bobbee and SilkeN like this.

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