More info about Doxa pocket watch Nagy Albert M.A.V. Palyaoras Medaille D'or Milan 1906 Liege 1905

Thread: More info about Doxa pocket watch Nagy Albert M.A.V. Palyaoras Medaille D'or Milan 1906 Liege 1905

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  1. #1
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    More info about Doxa pocket watch Nagy Albert M.A.V. Palyaoras Medaille D'or Milan 1906 Liege 1905

    Hi!

    I have a very nice Swiss made Doxa pocket watch and I'm looking to know more about it. This is what I know so far:

    a) It was made by Doxa S.A.
    b) It was made after 1925 because it lists prizes up to 1925. Anybody know a more excat estimation of the production year?
    c) The movement has 15 rubis, as stated on the case.
    d) The watch is unusually large (over 50 mm in diameter).
    e) The dial is marked "Nagy Albert Miskolcz M.A.V Palyaoras" - which is the name of a Hungarian person who supposedly was the time keeper of a train station in the city of Miskolc at the Hungarian National Railways. I initially thought that the dial may be unique and was dedicated to this person, but searching for this text on the Internet reveals that there are quite a few pocket watches out there with this inscription, even from multiple manufacturers.

    Any additional information would be greatly appreciated, especially an estimate of the production year, details about the movement and some info about the inscription on the dial and the prizes listed in the case.

    Thank you!

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  2. #2
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    Re: More info about Doxa pocket watch Nagy Albert M.A.V. Palyaoras Medaille D'or Milan 1906 Liege 19

    Quote Originally Posted by Un4Seen View Post
    Hi!

    I have a very nice Swiss made Doxa pocket watch and I'm looking to know more about it. This is what I know so far:

    a) It was made by Doxa S.A.
    b) It was made after 1925 because it lists prizes up to 1925. Anybody know a more excat estimation of the production year?
    c) The movement has 15 rubis, as stated on the case.
    d) The watch is unusually large (over 50 mm in diameter).
    e) The dial is marked "Nagy Albert Miskolcz M.A.V Palyaoras" - which is the name of a Hungarian person who supposedly was the time keeper of a train station in the city of Miskolc at the Hungarian National Railways. I initially thought that the dial may be unique and was dedicated to this person, but searching for this text on the Internet reveals that there are quite a few pocket watches out there with this inscription, even from multiple manufacturers.

    Any additional information would be greatly appreciated, especially an estimate of the production year, details about the movement and some info about the inscription on the dial and the prizes listed in the case.

    Thank you!
    Nice watch, but it wasn't necessarily made after 1925. The inscription on the cuvette says only "member of the jury Paris 1925". In fact Ranfft example of this movement shows it was made in 1925 but the actual run could have started a number of years before that. It also appears to be FHF based calibre.
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    Re: More info about Doxa pocket watch Nagy Albert M.A.V. Palyaoras Medaille D'or Milan 1906 Liege 19

    Hi there,

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Navman View Post
    ...but the actual run could have started a number of years before that.
    I must admit that dating is troublesome, but the best base is the date when the watch was completed, and this is here for sure earliest in 1925. If you include production dates of paricular ingredients, you should go billions of years back, when the nickel for the case was created by an unknown nuklear process, or even back to the big bang, if you believe in this religion

    Regards, Roland Ranfft

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    Re: More info about Doxa pocket watch Nagy Albert M.A.V. Palyaoras Medaille D'or Milan 1906 Liege 19

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland Ranfft View Post
    Hi there,


    I must admit that dating is troublesome, but the best base is the date when the watch was completed, and this is here for sure earliest in 1925. If you include production dates of paricular ingredients, you should go billions of years back, when the nickel for the case was created by an unknown nuklear process, or even back to the big bang, if you believe in this religion

    Regards, Roland Ranfft
    Hi Roland, I beg to differ this time. The reason for this is I've seen same (19''') Doxa pocket watch (same movement) on another forum with cuvette inscription 1905 and 1906. According to what you said above that would squarely put its manufacture date to at least 1906. So, when I said "the actual run could have started a number of years before that" I was referring to when the movement was made. Sure, the watch could have been cased in 1925 agreed.

    But going back to Doxa - have a look at the answer Hartmut gave on a question about .... yes, Doxa PW sometime ago:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hartmut Richter View Post
    Welcome to the Vintage forum. You have an early 20th century pocket watch: the date references just refer to medals or prizes won those years and have little to do with the date of manufacture of the watch. A movement picture might help but I suspect that it will turn out to look like this:

    bidfun-db Archiv: Uhrwerke: Doxa 1, 19''' (FHF 19''')


    Hartmut Richter
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    Re: More info about Doxa pocket watch Nagy Albert M.A.V. Palyaoras Medaille D'or Milan 1906 Liege 19

    That is true but please remember that some movements were made almost unchanged over decades. The one in the link dates from 1920 but the same movement in a different watch could date to 1930. Zenith brought out their NSV series of movement sin 1905 and these were made up to the late thrities. Possibly the record holder the the Valjoux 23, made from 1916-1974, although the Zenith El Primero is now 50 years old and still being made (but admittedly with a production break of ca. 10 years).

    Hartmut Richter

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    Re: More info about Doxa pocket watch Nagy Albert M.A.V. Palyaoras Medaille D'or Milan 1906 Liege 19

    Everybody, thank you for your answers!

    Although I did know about the ranfft.de website (which by the way is like a blessing to watch enthusiasts, THANK YOU!), I did not think to look there. Nice surprise to see that there's an actual person behind that website, nice to "meet you", Mr. Roland Ranfft :)

    Mr. Old Navman, what is FHF and "an FHF-based calibre" exactly?

    Does anybody have any idea what that inscription on the dial "Nagy Albert Misckolcz - M.A.V. Palyaoras" means? I mean I know what the words mean, but why do we see this inscription on several pocket watches from different manufacturers? What is its significance?

    As for the production year, I see that it's hard to even guess, but what would be the most probable interval? Would it be a fair guess that the watch was finished some time between 1920-1935?

    Thank you!

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    Re: More info about Doxa pocket watch Nagy Albert M.A.V. Palyaoras Medaille D'or Milan 1906 Liege 19

    Very diplomatic answer Hartmut.

    Un4Seen - just a friendly exchange of information as it should be. As to your question - FHF stands for Fabrique d'Horlogerie de Fontainemelon. You can read about FHF in many places but have a quick look HERE. BTW the majority of Doxa with Louis XIV hands I've seen have been dated between 1900-1910 (a couple up to 1920)

    Edit - Un4Seen it looks like you've done a solid research on this watch and Mr Nagy. The receipt below states (verbatim) that Nagy was a "watchmaker of miskolc" (órásmester miskolc) but perhaps that translates he was an official watchmaker/timekeeper for the Hungarian Railways there.

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    Re: More info about Doxa pocket watch Nagy Albert M.A.V. Palyaoras Medaille D'or Milan 1906 Liege 19

    Thank you, Old Navman :)

    Where did you manage to find this receipt? :) I see it's from 1938. If the watchmaker Nagy Albert was active in 1938, I wonder when he could have started his business. In my city there are watchmakers as old as 70 years (probably worked for 50 years). The guy (Nagy Albert) must have worked for quite a few years before he became famous enough for Doxa and other brands to write his name on their dials. Eh... I'm afraid this does not help very mcuh with dating the watch :( They guy's a mistery, can't find anything more about him on the Internet...

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    Re: More info about Doxa pocket watch Nagy Albert M.A.V. Palyaoras Medaille D'or Milan 1906 Liege 19

    Quote Originally Posted by Un4Seen View Post
    Thank you, Old Navman :)

    Where did you manage to find this receipt? :) I see it's from 1938. If the watchmaker Nagy Albert was active in 1938, I wonder when he could have started his business. In my city there are watchmakers as old as 70 years (probably worked for 50 years). The guy (Nagy Albert) must have worked for quite a few years before he became famous enough for Doxa and other brands to write his name on their dials. Eh... I'm afraid this does not help very mcuh with dating the watch :( They guy's a mistery, can't find anything more about him on the Internet...
    Well, the information is out there. You just got to know how to find it . As to dating the watch - definitely take note of Roland's & Hartmut's comments.

    You did mention in your first post that you've seen Nagy's name on inscriptions from multiple watch manufacturers. Indeed, here is an advertisement for one of them - probably the obverse of the invoice I posted above.
    Researching watches is a good fun - good luck!

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    Re: More info about Doxa pocket watch Nagy Albert M.A.V. Palyaoras Medaille D'or Milan 1906 Liege 19

    Thank you!

    Yes, looking at mechanical watches and unraveling their mysteries, is indeed very fun :)
    I'm creating a precise catalogue of my watches and I'll probably develop a website for them too, where you can filter and search them by all kinds of criteria. Not hat I have so many.. I only have 45 watches... still, they offer me a lot of joy.

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