Need your assistance with finding hands for Longines 23Z movement...
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  1. #1
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    Need your assistance with finding hands for Longines 23Z movement...

    Hi and thanks in advance for your time and assistance!

    I am looking for the hour and minute hands for the 23Z movement (only need these two hands, but will also buy all three if sold with sub second hand). The hour hand is approx. 12mm and minute hand approx. 16mm respectively, from the center of the hole.

    I've looked on "x"bay without much luck, all sold with the movement and many sellers don't or won't spend the time to get the size information for me.

    Any information about where to find them is greatly appreciated! THANKS AGAIN!

  2. #2
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    Re: Need your assistance with finding hands for Longines 23Z movement...

    Hi,

    Bestfit doesn't provide this info but Ranfft lists them as 1.34 hour hand and 0.76 minute hand.

    Do you have the case/ref number?
    Last edited by Vintage1982; August 16th, 2015 at 11:19.
    goodtimes688 likes this.

  3. #3
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    Re: Need your assistance with finding hands for Longines 23Z movement...

    WHERE ARE YOU? Sorry to shout, but it's incredibly difficult to get across the idea to new members (or even folks like you who been around for 4 years…) that people here are helpful, but it helps no one if the help is misdirected, ie you live in the USA, but the information on hand relates to European suppliers and so on.

    Rant over. I'll assume that you are in the US, as you spelled center e-r rather that r-e.

    First, look up the movement specification on the Ranfft database so often mentioned here. Here's your movement. Dr Ranfft specifies that your hand sizes are 1.34 x 0.76 / 0.20mm. What's that mean in English? Okay, the hole size for the hour hand is 1.34mm, hole size for the minute hand is .76mm and the second hand is .20mm.

    Armed with this information, I would steer you to Ofrei, a watch materials supplier in the US (for what it's worth, there's nothing like their variety available new elsewhere). If you go to their hand section (under watch materials), you'll find a wide range of hands in various styles, one of which ought to suit the movement as well as the style of watch. I just got a set for a Longines calibre 12AS and they're perfect, so I'm confident you'll find something there.

    WARNING: the hole sizes that Ranfft lists are usually accurate, taken from the good Doctor's own comprehensive sources, no doubt. But I've found that there can be differences between the data R has published and the real world actual dimensions. Please take this observation as opinion rather than fact, but in your case, I'd suggest that you're looking for H= 1.35mm and M= 75mm; there may be some slight opening or closing of the collets to fit exactly, but perhaps not.

    When and if the exact hole size cannot be sourced, as is often the case, especially with vintage movements, then one has no choice but to adjust the hole size. When this is the case, then opening up the hole of a hand with no tube (as hour hands often are) may be possible. In this case, making a hole smaller is obviously not possible.

    Pinching the tube of the minute hand can allow a minor re-adjustment and so a slightly larger nominal mounting size can sometimes be used. Equally, one can sometimes enlarge the tube with a broach, too, but I just find it easier to close the tube a smidgen rather than have to open it, so if I had a choice one way or the other than I'd vote to pinch it. Myself.

    In both case, we are talking about small adjustments, forced upon us by necessity. But in general, it's easier to open up the hour hand hole, and to close down the minute hand tube. In general the key word here, but it just depends on what you come across in the real world.

    The length of the hands you need will be particular to your watch, so you'll have to measure and estimate the distances for each hand and measure accordingly. Shortening hour and minute hands is a bad idea, generally; the second hand can and usually is cut to match the distance between the movement centre to the chapter ring.

    A last point: this thread is sort of closer to a thread that might be better addressed on the Watchmaking board, but may be of interest here, too. I'll leave it up to the moderator on that one. But if you aren't in the US, and want to order from Ofrei, please read their shipping instructions carefully as they actually do ship for reasonable rates, it just doesn't first appear so. There's a thread on Watchmaking about this shipping policy, if you need to read up on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by goodtimes688 View Post
    Hi and thanks in advance for your time and assistance!

    I am looking for the hour and minute hands for the 23Z movement (only need these two hands, but will also buy all three if sold with sub second hand). The hour hand is approx. 12mm and minute hand approx. 16mm respectively, from the center of the hole.

    I've looked on "x"bay without much luck, all sold with the movement and many sellers don't or won't spend the time to get the size information for me.

    Any information about where to find them is greatly appreciated! THANKS AGAIN!
    Last edited by Habitant; August 17th, 2015 at 09:46. Reason: Clarifiication
    goodtimes688, bobbee, Shum and 1 others like this.

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  5. #4
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    Re: Need your assistance with finding hands for Longines 23Z movement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Habitant View Post
    A last point: this thread is sort of closer to a thread that might be better addressed on the Watchmaking board, but may be of interest here, too. I'll leave it up to the moderator on that one. But if you aren't in the US, and want to order from Ofrei, please read their shipping instructions carefully as they actually do ship for reasonable rates, it just doesn't first appear so.
    Hey thanks for that. I actually always skipped them and removed from search results and parts hunting because of the shipping costs. It appears they will charge $51 for a small package and that's ridiculous ofcourse.
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    Re: Need your assistance with finding hands for Longines 23Z movement...

    Read again. They will ship it out much less, but you must make your purchase and include a note in the invoice panel requesting First Class International (or some such thing) and they will happily use this method, as long as your order is below certain weight and value restrictions. I found their service very good and recommend them - just read it carefully, 'cause in truth it's poorly written and put me off for a long time. But their hand selection is simply fantastic compared to others. Anyway, the info is all there, cloaked in an unclear mess of information. A slight demerit for that, but…

    Quote Originally Posted by Vintage1982 View Post
    Hey thanks for that. I actually always skipped them and removed from search results and parts hunting because of the shipping costs. It appears they will charge $51 for a small package and that's ridiculous ofcourse.
    goodtimes688 likes this.

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    Re: Need your assistance with finding hands for Longines 23Z movement...

    Thanks for your reply Vintage1982 - is the case/reference number four digits? If so, I see that it's 6641, but I am unable to find any information online about it (I am only fair at best, with searching on the internet).

    I don't have the watch with me but my measurements should be close to it's actual size (with a ruler next to the watch). I will try to post a picture of the hands/dial.

  8. #7
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    Re: Need your assistance with finding hands for Longines 23Z movement...

    Habitant - Thanks so much for your time and assistance!

    I apologize for not stating clearly, but I am able to have the parts shipped to my brother's in the states, so shipping shouldn't be a problem.

    I saw the info on Ranfft database but I'm still learning to read the specs/info.

    I will look up ofrei after this, thank so much!

    And thanks so much for the "WARNING:..", really good to know! =)

    Quote Originally Posted by Habitant View Post
    WHERE ARE YOU? Sorry to shout, but it's incredibly difficult to get across the idea to new members (or even folks like you who been around for 4 years…) that people here are helpful, but it helps no one if the help is misdirected, ie you live in the USA, but the information on hand relates to European suppliers and so on.

    Rant over. I'll assume that you are in the US, as you spelled center e-r rather that r-e.

    First, look up the movement specification on the Ranfft database so often mentioned here. Here's your movement. Dr Ranfft specifies that your hand sizes are 1.34 x 0.76 / 0.20mm. What's that mean in English? Okay, the hole size for the hour hand is 1.34mm, hole size for the minute hand is .76mm and the second hand is .20mm.

    Armed with this information, I would steer you to Ofrei, a watch materials supplier in the US (for what it's worth, there's nothing like their variety available new elsewhere). If you go to their hand section (under watch materials), you'll find a wide range of hands in various styles, one of which ought to suit the movement as well as the style of watch. I just got a set for a Longines calibre 12AS and they're perfect, so I'm confident you'll find something there.

    WARNING: the hole sizes that Ranfft lists are usually accurate, taken from the good Doctor's own comprehensive sources, no doubt. But I've found that there can be differences between the data R has published and the real world actual dimensions. Please take this observation as opinion rather than fact, but in your case, I'd suggest that you're looking for H= 1.35mm and M= 75mm; there may be some slight opening or closing of the collets to fit exactly, but perhaps not. In general, it's easier to open up the hour hand hole, and to close down the minute hand collet, so if given a choice and within small tolerances, make your choices using this a guiding principle. The length of the hands you need will be particular to your watch, so you'll have to measure and estimate the distances for each hand and measure accordingly. Shortening hour and minute hands is a bad idea, generally; the second hand can and usually is cut to match the distance between the movement centre to the chapter ring.

    A last point: this thread is sort of closer to a thread that might be better addressed on the Watchmaking board, but may be of interest here, too. I'll leave it up to the moderator on that one. But if you aren't in the US, and want to order from Ofrei, please read their shipping instructions carefully as they actually do ship for reasonable rates, it just doesn't first appear so. There's a thread on Watchmaking about this shipping policy, if you need to read up on it.

  9. #8
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    Re: Need your assistance with finding hands for Longines 23Z movement...

    Quote Originally Posted by goodtimes688 View Post
    Is the case/reference number four digits? If so, I see that it's 6641, but I am unable to find any information online about it.
    Yes, that's the reference. On Cousins UK you can try and find parts like crystals and hands using the casenumber or reference number. No luck, sorry.

  10. #9
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    Re: Need your assistance with finding hands for Longines 23Z movement...

    Chances of finding "Longines" brand-specific hands for a movement that's nearly 50 years-old are very, very, very slim indeed. You do get oddities like ancient NOS discoveries, but I think there's nothing in it on this one. As I wrote earlier, the hands I got from Ofrei were/are virtually identical to the ones which had been on the Longines I had (and whose hands had been damaged by someone previously…).

    Just had a look on eBay at the various 23Z models to be seen there and it seems to me that all the models shown have fairly typical hands, all of which you can certainly find at Ofrei.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vintage1982 View Post
    Yes, that's the reference. On Cousins UK you can try and find parts like crystals and hands using the casenumber or reference number. No luck, sorry.
    Last edited by Habitant; August 16th, 2015 at 17:51.

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    Re: Need your assistance with finding hands for Longines 23Z movement...

    Quote Originally Posted by Habitant View Post
    . . . . In general, it's easier to open up the hour hand hole, and to close down the minute hand collet, so if given a choice and within small tolerances, make your choices using this a guiding principle. . . .
    Would you care to expound on this line of reasoning?

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