New year, new mystery movement
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  1. #1
    Member esdy_11192's Avatar
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    Question New year, new mystery movement

    I said to myself "do not buy any watches, parts and similar in the beginning of 2018", I want to learn more watchmaking skills and buy some second hand tools. However, I saw this beautiful Dreffa on a local auction website and I could not pass by it. :) I had to buy it.

    Inside there is a strange looking movement. The movement looks original to the watch and it should be Swiss. It looks very much as the German movements from Kasper (for example: bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: Kasper 750). Upon arrival and looking closely there are obvious differences. Under the balance there is a number "1061" and the size of it is 11.5'''. I managed to find a similar movement from a Gotham watch https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Gotham-1061-...r/292165120905 , but I'm really not sure if Gotham made any movements of it's own.

    Here are the photos of my watch





    Of course, no trace of it at Dr. Ranfft's database, C. Lorenz's page etc. :)

    If anyone have any info and/or any insights I would be delighted to hear them! :)



    .

  2. #2
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    Re: New year, new mystery movement

    I suspect that you've got the right movement but yours is a different generation and/or a slightly different size. Sometimes, movements "evolved" a little and thereby changed the shape of balance cock, etc. As long as the gears in the geartrain are in precisely the same position relative to each other as well as the rest of the movement, as long as the stem release screw is in the same place, as long as the keyless works is the same (can't be checked here, of course), it should be the same movement. As for the size issue, although one could blow up a 10.5''' movement to 11.5''' and make everything 10% bigger, far more frequently, a 10.5''' simply got a larger base plate with all the other parts staying in the same position and the same size. Bit of a cheat, really, since the larger a movement, the more accurate it becomes.

    Hartmut Richter
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  3. #3
    Member esdy_11192's Avatar
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    Re: New year, new mystery movement

    Quote Originally Posted by Hartmut Richter View Post
    I suspect that you've got the right movement but yours is a different generation and/or a slightly different size. Sometimes, movements "evolved" a little and thereby changed the shape of balance cock, etc. As long as the gears in the geartrain are in precisely the same position relative to each other as well as the rest of the movement, as long as the stem release screw is in the same place, as long as the keyless works is the same (can't be checked here, of course), it should be the same movement. As for the size issue, although one could blow up a 10.5''' movement to 11.5''' and make everything 10% bigger, far more frequently, a 10.5''' simply got a larger base plate with all the other parts staying in the same position and the same size. Bit of a cheat, really, since the larger a movement, the more accurate it becomes.

    Hartmut Richter
    Hm, I'm not sure about it being Kasper after all. The other movement has a Swiss stamped on it. And the number under the balance is not matching Kasper's numeration, logically it should be lower. The bridge under the balance is different, many screws don't match up, the wheel near the crown wheel have different proportions.

    Would it be possible that it was a Swiss ebauche to begin with and then they sold it to Kasper? Like Enicar sold on of it's movement to Durowe. But that's probably a nonsense from me. :)

    If nobody manages to recognize it for sure I'll wait for my watchmaker for the dial side of the movement. :)

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    Re: New year, new mystery movement

    I have no idea what movement this is, but for all I know, DREFFA used only Swiss movements, so I'd rule out any provenience other than Swiss. (If I remember correctly, "Geneve" was allowed only for watches having been built with at least 50% of the value added there.)

    What I cannot rule out, though, is that some watchmaker may have replaced the movement with a fitting one back in time. From where did you get it?

    Regards
    Andreas
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    Member esdy_11192's Avatar
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    Re: New year, new mystery movement

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat1960 View Post
    I have no idea what movement this is, but for all I know, DREFFA used only Swiss movements, so I'd rule out any provenience other than Swiss. (If I remember correctly, "Geneve" was allowed only for watches having been built with at least 50% of the value added there.)

    What I cannot rule out, though, is that some watchmaker may have replaced the movement with a fitting one back in time. From where did you get it?

    Regards
    Andreas
    The movement should be Swiss as the linked one (identical in the look and with the number marked) seems to be marked with "Swiss".

    I got the watch locally, Serbia, and I bought quite some watches from the seller. We don't have an organized frankewatch community and all the odd and unknown watches are rarely touched upon. :) The screw marks coincide withe the markings on the movement holder. So I would not think anything is swapped. The movement sits perfectly in the case.

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