Opinions on pocket watch sought.
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  1. #1
    Member Apollonaught's Avatar
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    Opinions on pocket watch sought.

    Hi,


    I spotted a pocket watch at a local auction,and would like an opinion please.
    The seller description is brief,*800 silver small seconds,cylinder pocket watch.
    4 days remaining,no bids,so thought i would check here on the movement because it`s not like any cylinder movement i`ve seen.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    really nice engraved case,pin set....................
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    i have my doubts the small seconds hand is correct,can see the hole beneath......................
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    Note the twisted gears on the winding..........any info welcomed.
    Thanks in advance.
    "There are many paths leading up the mountain,but the view from the top is the same."

  2. #2
    Member Border-Reiver's Avatar
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    Re: Opinions on pocket watch sought.

    That is not a cylinder escapement from what I vaguely see (pointed tooth escapement?). The experts here can immediately tell. Unfortunately, the watch was running when the pictures were taken and things are not that clear. The 'twisted gear winding' is something special and increasing the value of the watch. It is called 'wolfsteeth' and that ensures a tighter grip of the teeth and less friction.
    Last edited by Border-Reiver; August 14th, 2015 at 10:05.
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  3. #3
    Vint. Forum Co-Moderator Mirius's Avatar
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    Re: Opinions on pocket watch sought.

    I have to agree that the watch is not a cylinder escapement which is a good thing. Those gears however are not wolfsteeth. I can't offhand however say I've noticed that style of gear before on a watch like this though the name for that gear style escapes me.
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  5. #4
    Member Apollonaught's Avatar
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    Re: Opinions on pocket watch sought.

    Thanks for the confirmation guys,here a better pic of movement with what looks like a ring above the escape wheel..
    Click image for larger version. 

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    @Mirius.i must be the worst at using the correct technical definitions for these parts,but i understand the principal behind the sloping gears,whaterever they are called.
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    "There are many paths leading up the mountain,but the view from the top is the same."

  6. #5
    28A
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    Re: Opinions on pocket watch sought.

    The "wolfs teeth" gears are the the two winding gears where they have a curved tooth instead of a straight cut.

    The "wolfs teeth" that you're referring to is what's called "helical" gears.

    Edit:

    Here's an example. the "wolfs teeth" gears.. which really, should be called "saw tooth".



    And helical..

    Last edited by 28A; August 14th, 2015 at 10:44.
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    Divers - June 1977 Seiko 6309-7040 Quartz Hybrid | March 1978 Seiko 7548-700H (Orange Dial) in a 6309-7040 case | February 1972 Seiko 6105-8110 | Seiko 7548 "Tuna" TST | October 1985 Seiko H558-5000 "Arnie" | Scurfa Stainless Steel.

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  7. #6
    Member Apollonaught's Avatar
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    Re: Opinions on pocket watch sought.

    Thanks 28a,"Helical" it is,that cleared that up...............
    i guess my subconscious is having difficulty with this piece,because looking at the style of numeral in the small seconds, tells me this is a pre-1900 style which seems at odds with the style of case,bow,crown etc.........

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    ....could it be a (dare i say it) frankenstien!
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    "There are many paths leading up the mountain,but the view from the top is the same."

  8. #7
    Member Audemars's Avatar
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    Re: Opinions on pocket watch sought.

    Do you have a serial number?
    What is the approximate diameter of the movement?
    Paul
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  9. #8
    Member Apollonaught's Avatar
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    Re: Opinions on pocket watch sought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Audemars View Post
    Do you have a serial number?
    What is the approximate diameter of the movement?
    Paul
    Only seller pics of inside case back,and described as 48mm,so given this is the case measurement,i think the movement could be about 38mm or there abouts....
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Apollonaught; August 14th, 2015 at 13:25. Reason: pic added
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  10. #9
    Member AbslomRob's Avatar
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    Re: Opinions on pocket watch sought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apollonaught View Post
    Thanks for the confirmation guys,here a better pic of movement with what looks like a ring above the escape wheel..
    That looks like a typical Swiss lever that has been counter-balanced and poised. Bascially, they add mass to the pallet side to balance out the mass of the fork on the other side, and to ensure that the center of gravity of the whole thing is over the pivot. At the time, it was thought this would increase positional accuracy. This was the same basic mis-understanding of gravity that was behind the tourbillon. Some watchmakers (Assman, for example) continued to use them in their higher-grade watches into the 20th century, but there wasn't much value to them outside of aesthetics.
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  11. #10
    Member Apollonaught's Avatar
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    Re: Opinions on pocket watch sought.

    Quote Originally Posted by AbslomRob View Post
    That looks like a typical Swiss lever that has been counter-balanced and poised. Bascially, they add mass to the pallet side to balance out the mass of the fork on the other side, and to ensure that the center of gravity of the whole thing is over the pivot. At the time, it was thought this would increase positional accuracy. This was the same basic mis-understanding of gravity that was behind the tourbillon. Some watchmakers (Assman, for example) continued to use them in their higher-grade watches into the 20th century, but there wasn't much value to them outside of aesthetics.

    Thanks Rob,
    That would explain why it`s in two different positions in the pics,it must be stuck to fork somehow.
    Looking over the pics again,i found what looks like a name scratched in,but can`t make out what it is.................
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    A seller trick perhaps?
    "There are many paths leading up the mountain,but the view from the top is the same."

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