Patek Phillipe Pocket Watch

Thread: Patek Phillipe Pocket Watch

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  1. #1
    Member PalmBeachWatchLover's Avatar
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    Patek Phillipe Pocket Watch

    I recently acquired this Patek Philippe pocket watch, 18K gold and of historical significance in tennis. It was retailed by Black, Starr & Frost Gorham Inc. and given to the the President of the United States Lawn Tennis Association for his service in the years 1930-1931. Please see images of this watch at:
    http://www.smartproinsight.com/patek...ocketwatch.htm

    I am curious how Patek Philippe collaborated back then with retailers like Black, Starr & Frost Gorham? The movement is signed Patek Phillipe Serial Number 809667 (so it was produced between the years 1925 and 1930 I am told) but the retailer's name takes center stage on the outside of face of the watch as you will see in the photos. Since I am heavily involved in pro tennis as a coach and a sport psychologist, and love watches, this was a natural. Any experts out there who can comment on this watch I would really love you opinion. What does the impact of sports historical significance have on the value of a watch? Is it any different than a normal Patek Phillipe in terms of quality (better or worse?) in that the retailer got it and put their own name on it, or is it just the same as any high quality Patek? This one is 18 jewels and 44.1 mm in diameter. Any insight into the quality of this watch is highly appreciated. I love this one ... and wanted to share the photos. Enjoy and thanks for your comments.


  2. #2
    Member Eeeb's Avatar
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    Re: Patek Phillipe Pocket Watch

    Wow... the watch itself is quite nice. Patek Philippe is one of the best makers... some would say the best nowadays.

    It has been (and still is) common for jewelers to put their own name of the dial. These watches are usually no different from the watches sold under the maker's mark. And it's presence usually doesn't affect it's value. One exception would be Tiffiny and Co. Just putting that name of the dial increases a watches' value... but not by a whole lot.

    Again, beautiful watch. Patek's usually don't have the highest technology, but they do have very high finish. They are beautiful.
    "Forever is composed of nows." - Emily Dickinson

    "The watch has to be surrounded by a history.
    You need more than just a great design. You need to create an atmosphere around the product.
    Who is the company behind it? Why are they using this material?
    People need to be able to identify the watch with themselves. It's based on emotion." - Ralph Furter

    ...that's just my opinion and I've been wrong before and will be again and might be now!

  3. #3
    Member JohnF's Avatar
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    Re: Patek Phillipe Pocket Watch

    Hi -

    Lovely, lovely watch.

    As Eeeb mentions, it is fairly common for this to happen.

    And I bought my wedding rings at Black, Starr and Frost in DC, close to 20 years ago. They were the only ones who had massive plain wedding bands of 18k yellow gold without ornamentation at the time (mine weighs around 8 grams!), and the price wasn't too outrageous. Only piece of jewelry I own, besides a class ring (Duquesne University, 1979) and my ca 80 watches...

    JohnF
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  5. #4
    Member Ray MacDonald's Avatar
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    Re: Patek Phillipe Pocket Watch

    A great watch in its own right by the Swiss maker with the highest reputation for craftsmanship. The fact that it's a famous jeweler on the dial doesn't matter. In the 1920s and 30s this was pretty common for the fine Swiss makers - at least for movements they sold in the US or Canada.
    Add to that the facts you know its provenance, it's important to you, and it has historical and sporting significance, and you have a very special timepiece. Enjoy it, and thanks for posting.

    There are fathers who do not love their children; there is no grandfather who does not adore his grandson. ~ Victor Hugo

  6. #5
    Member PalmBeachWatchLover's Avatar
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    Re: Patek Phillipe Pocket Watch

    thanks for your comments Eeeb!

  7. #6
    Member PalmBeachWatchLover's Avatar
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    Re: Patek Phillipe Pocket Watch

    thanks Ray and JohnF too ... it is indeed a beauty and I appreciate your insights!!

  8. #7
    Member PalmBeachWatchLover's Avatar
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    Re: Patek Phillipe Pocket Watch

    I've added some more photos of this watch at the link below. Your comments are appreciated!
    http://www.smartproinsight.com/patek...ocketwatch.htm

  9. #8
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    Re: Patek Phillipe Pocket Watch

    I found out a little more information about the original owner of this watch, Louis J. Carruthers, but there is still much to learn. This was thanks to an email from the famous tennis historian Bud Collins and you can see his email to me at:
    http://www.smartproinsight.com/louisjcarruthers.htm

    If anyone has any insight into digging more into the history of this person let me know ... but I would assume this forum is more interested in the watch than the man who owned it. All I can find aside from what Bud has told me is that he was married to a Helen and had a daughter named Mary. I would love to find his obit. He was born in 1878 but there is no record anywhere that I can find about his death, marriage certificate or other. He was a very well known figure in tennis with hundreds of articles in which he is quoted all over the country from 1931-1934 ... then he falls off the planet! I would love to establish how his family ever let this gorgeous Patek Philippe watch leave their possession! Thanks to me I now own it .. but the curiosity is driving me mad

  10. #9
    Member Marrick's Avatar
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    Re: Patek Phillipe Pocket Watch

    There is a Louis J. Carruthers mentioned here in 1954 in a document relating to the board of Philip Morris:

    http://tobaccodocuments.org/pm/2048017707-7708.html

    & here:

    http://ltdlimages.library.ucsf.edu/i.../Sxsf53e00.pdf

    OBITUARY

    http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstra...arruthers&st=p
    Last edited by Marrick; May 18th, 2008 at 22:04.

  11. #10
    Member PalmBeachWatchLover's Avatar
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    Re: Patek Phillipe Pocket Watch

    fascinating! what search did you do to find that??? I am curious. It makes sense that it is New York as that is where he lived, and he was a lawyer and would be 76 years old in 1954 ... so this might mean he was in New York ... not sure what he was doing with tobacco! ... anyone else have anything on this man? I am having fun in this search!

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