A question about an old FL Chronometre
Like Tree13Likes

Thread: A question about an old FL Chronometre

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 21
  1. #1
    Member sempervivens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,140

    A question about an old FL Chronometre

    Knowing that some of you guys are familiar with old gold marks, maybe you can tell me more about this, like the year?

    Name:  goldmarksdetail.JPG
Views: 128
Size:  222.1 KB

    This is what it belongs to:

    Name:  IMG_9507-800.jpg
Views: 124
Size:  36.6 KB

    (Dial was restored)

    Name:  IMG_9500-800.jpg
Views: 123
Size:  35.2 KB

    Interesting hinged case

    Name:  IMG_9493-800.jpg
Views: 155
Size:  51.9 KB

    An old Felsa 720

    Name:  IMG_9498-800.jpg
Views: 124
Size:  43.8 KB

    The case is actually a lovely size (25 x 40 mm) and has 18 mm (fixed) lugs

    Name:  IMG_9511-800.jpg
Views: 122
Size:  22.2 KBName:  IMG_9508-800.jpg
Views: 120
Size:  21.5 KBName:  IMG_9510-800.jpg
Views: 122
Size:  31.5 KBName:  IMG_9506-800.jpg
Views: 121
Size:  34.5 KB

    I also wonder what the FL refers to: could it simply mean Felsa?
    radger and busmatt like this.
    Vanitas vanitatum et omnia vanitas, praeter ...

  2. #2
    Member Marrick's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    East Yorkshire, UK
    Posts
    7,743

    Re: A question about an old FL Chronometre

    I don't think you can get an exact year from Swiss hallmarks - although someone else might be better informed.

    FL usually means Favre-Leuba.

    If that's 112 your case was made by Ducommun Silver Forums at 925-1000.com
    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects."

    Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)


    Please don't PM me to ask for a valuation - I won't attempt one.

  3. #3
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Costa Blanca Spain
    Posts
    13,361

    Re: A question about an old FL Chronometre

    Hi
    That is the Poincon De Maitre (responsibility mark) of Hammer Head + Handle.
    Normally we only see a Hammer Head with NO handle.
    Only two companies were registered 115 and 160
    So if the number is 115 the manufacturer is Favre & Perret SA

    Based on those pictures I believe dial is re-worked.

    A
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

  4. Remove Advertisements
    WatchUSeek.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Member Emre's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Istanbul-Dubai-Varna
    Posts
    3,358

    Re: A question about an old FL Chronometre

    Marrick allow me to correct,the 112 numbered case-maker Ducommun is for the 'hammer head' mark,not for the 'hammer with handle' mark.

    It's the same issue we had a few days back.That 'hammer with handle' is a big mystery and only 2 numbers are known to us.115 & 160.The others which we've seen fetching from 1-180 were simply not registered until 1934,because each Canton had their own local authority.

    In 1934,obvioulsy things went out of control and they decided to put it together and created the 'Swiss Central Office for Precious Metal Control' in Bern and implied the other 'poinçon de maître', hammer head ( without handle). The hammer head is properly registered to case-makers and is easy to identify.But yours along with our earlier pieces unfortunately are not known yet.

    How this 'hammer with handle' mark helps is,your watch ( better say case ) would date from 1926-1934 somewhere,if the case is original to the movement and dial,thats another question.If original to the case,17 jewels with a center jewel would be high grade for its time.The dial,it doesn't look that old,could be redial or not belonging to this case again?

    FL: Favre Leuba- India- redial :) Sorry couldn't hold myself.Is the watch from India?
    Last edited by Emre; September 27th, 2014 at 00:03.
    Marrick likes this.

  6. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    According to Accutronitis and his BFF I live in Berkshire, but really I live in Derbyshire
    Posts
    4,045

    Re: A question about an old FL Chronometre

    This case style just shouts "1930's" to me. No later than 1940, and probably five or six years before that.
    Bob.

  7. #6
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Costa Blanca Spain
    Posts
    13,361

    Re: A question about an old FL Chronometre

    Quote Originally Posted by Emre View Post
    It's the same issue we had a few days back.That 'hammer with handle' is a big mystery and only 2 numbers are known to us.115 & 160.



    ?
    Hi Emre I did mention that above, what concerns me is that the number appears to be "112" which we both know does not exist with a handle.
    I hope it is 115, otherwise we have a new Horology mystery (or a fake) .

    I suspect due to dial whole watch is a Franken?
    adam
    Last edited by HOROLOGIST007; September 26th, 2014 at 23:18.
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

  8. #7
    Member Emre's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Istanbul-Dubai-Varna
    Posts
    3,358

    Re: A question about an old FL Chronometre

    Adam,there are many numbers with handle which we don't know-yet.It doesn't mean they are fake.

    We just don't know to whom they were assigned.I have no: 1 ( Glycine 1934),123 (Harwood,London 1928 ),143 ( Glycine 1926 ) above is 112 and David has 180 ( Stauffer,Glasgow 1926/27)...go figure...obviously they fetched from 1-180.

    ( You should check your Harwoods,let's see if they are same 123,maybe that was Vogt,Fortis??? )

    For OP watch,dial surely repainted.The only good thing is the gold case :)
    Last edited by Emre; September 26th, 2014 at 23:43.
    bobbee and radger like this.

  9. #8
    Member sempervivens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,140

    Re: A question about an old FL Chronometre

    Quote Originally Posted by Emre View Post
    Marrick allow me to correct,the 112 numbered case-maker Ducommun is for the 'hammer head' mark,not for the 'hammer with handle' mark.

    It's the same issue we had a few days back.That 'hammer with handle' is a big mystery and only 2 numbers are known to us.115 & 160.The others which we've seen fetching from 1-180 were simply not registered until 1934,because each Canton had their own local authority.

    In 1934,obvioulsy things went out of control and they decided to put it together and created the 'Swiss Central Office for Precious Metal Control' in Geneve and implied the other 'poinçon de maître', hammer head ( without handle). The hammer head is properly registered to case-makers and is easy to identify.But yours along with our earlier pieces unfortunately are not known yet.

    How this 'hammer with handle' mark helps is,your watch ( better say case ) would date from 1926-1934 somewhere,if the case is original to the movement and dial,thats another question.If original to the case,17 jewels with a center jewel would be high grade for its time.The dial,it doesn't look that old,could be redial or not belonging to this case again?

    FL: Favre Leuba- India- redial :) Sorry couldn't hold myself.Is the watch from India?
    Thank you guys! That is great info. A high grade Favre-Leuba then it is. How come I didn't think of Favre-Leuba

    So if I understand it correctly, you say it dates to before 1934, because the hammer with handle was not used after 1934? And why does it date to after 1926 (did I miss out on something here)?

    I also thought it dated to the 1920's, simply because I read somewhere that the 'chronometre' designation (on the dial) was a fancy that started in the 1920's.

    Then for the rectangular case style, I also thought maybe 1930's.

    However I just read that Cartier already made the Tank Cintrée in 1921. The slim, curved case looks a lot like that, it was probably inspired by the tank cintrée.

    The dial was restored - (I did mention that in the post) - but good heavens, not in India! I had it done myself through a watchmaker, who sent it to France.

    That was in 2006, in the beginning of my collecting days. Now I would maybe not have it restored. Back then I thought the restoration of the dial was a nice job, very faithful to the original, and the dial was badly stained anyway.

    But the watch has been in my family for quite some time before that, it was bought at an auction in the 1970's or so.

    Name:  detail.JPG
Views: 94
Size:  95.8 KB
    Last edited by sempervivens; September 27th, 2014 at 00:02.
    bobbee likes this.
    Vanitas vanitatum et omnia vanitas, praeter ...

  10. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    6,934

    Re: A question about an old FL Chronometre

    Quote Originally Posted by HOROLOGIST007 View Post
    Hi Emre I did mention that above, what concerns me is that the number appears to be "112" which we both know does not exist with a handle.
    I hope it is 115, otherwise we have a new Horology mystery (or a fake) .

    I suspect due to dial whole watch is a Franken?
    adam
    Don't worry about a number that isn't in the database. It may mean it was made not by a member of the collective, but rather by the watch company itself. I discovered this with a 1945 JLC, which has the "Key of Geneva" cartouche. It has a "3" in the key, which is missing from the list. But it also has an "LC" hallmark with a tree between the L and C, which was LeCoultre's in-house hallmark. I don't know if JLC made the case, but they might have. (It's a typical stamped and polished two-piece 18K gold case from that period.) In any case, I've come to the conclusion that the number list is not complete, and only shows maybe one type of case maker. I am quite positive that JLC is not a fake--I've seen the very same markings on most Swiss-cased gold JLC's from that era.

    I would not assume anything. The movement fits the case well enough, and I suspect that at worst the dial is just a repaint. It doesn't matter anyway, unless it's a brand that has special collector value, which Favre-Leuba doesn't have, particularly.

    Rick "who would enjoy a neat watch for what it is" Denney
    Last edited by Rdenney; September 26th, 2014 at 23:52.
    bobbee and radger like this.
    Zenith: Captain Chronograph 03.2110.400*; Cartier: Santos 100 XL Concord: Mariner, C1 Big-Date, C1 v.2 Chronograph; Ebel: Chronosport 1134901, Tekton 9137L83*, Type E 9137C41* (*=COSC)
    Ebel: 1911 BTR 9137L73* and 9139L71*, 1911 1120L41*, 1911 Senior 9080241, Brasilias 9120M41 (2), Aquatica 500 9120K61, Classic Hexagon GMT 9301F61, Classic 100 LE 9120R41; Baume & Mercier: Capeland World-Timer
    Heuer: Carrera 1964 Re-Edition CS3110; Maurice Lacroix: Masterpiece MP6439; "Seagull": 1963 Reissue cal. ST19; Seiko: Black Monster SRP307; Poljot: Sturmanskie cal. 3133; Tissot: T-Touch Lew and Huey: Acciona
    Vintage: JLC: ref. 2953, ca. 1946; Longines: Flagship cal 285; Zodiac: SST cal. 86, Aerospace GMT cal. 72; Favre-Leuba: cal. 253; Tianjin: Dong Feng cal. ST5; Elgin: Gr. 152 (1898), Gr. 384 (1919); Ebel: ca. 1962 ref. 9214955
    WUS: ST5 Project Watches (Black and Blue), F72.2014.DG3804 (Gray and Cream); Swatch: Sistem 51 Blue; TNT: Rattrapante cal. Rochat 7750+RAT-1

  11. #10
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Costa Blanca Spain
    Posts
    13,361

    Re: A question about an old FL Chronometre

    Quote Originally Posted by Emre View Post
    Adam,there are many numbers with handle which we don't know-yet.It doesn't mean they are fake.

    We just don't know to whom they were assigned.I have no: 1 ( Glycine 1934),123 (Harwood,London 1928 ),143 ( Glycine 1926 ) above is 112 and David has 180 ( Stauffer,Glasgow 1926/27)...go figure...obviously they fetched from 1-180.

    ( You should check your Harwoods,let's see if they are same 123,maybe that was Vogt,Fortis??? )

    For OP watch,dial surely repainted.The only good thing is the gold case :)
    Hi Emre
    I did not say it was a fake, I said I "suspected" it.

    That said, why would anyone "fake" a number that never existed, so I do accept case is genuine.
    I got no idea why you have 'handle' with other code numbers, I can not explain it, so to me it is still a Horology mystery to be solved.

    @ Sempervivens
    Sorry, I never noted you alrady said it was a redial, but I am pleased I could spot that.
    The watch has spring lugs so surely not early 20s. I agree with Bobee early 30s.
    No shock protection that was coming in by 40s.

    Regards
    adam
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

    Similar Threads

    1. TRADED: Breitling B1 Chronometre
      By gilgabo in forum Watches - Private sellers and Sponsors
      Replies: 3
      Last Post: May 26th, 2014, 15:37
    2. Help identify chronometre
      By ivana86 in forum Pilots' & Military watches
      Replies: 22
      Last Post: June 14th, 2013, 18:38
    3. Tissot chronometre
      By lunapark in forum Tissot
      Replies: 1
      Last Post: August 31st, 2010, 19:27
    4. Question about a Constellation Chronometre
      By ewheeler in forum Omega
      Replies: 2
      Last Post: November 2nd, 2007, 20:06
    5. Chronometre - Ss & G
      By fcarnut in forum Breitling
      Replies: 2
      Last Post: January 5th, 2007, 13:46

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •