Roamer's first auto?
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  1. #1
    Member trim's Avatar
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    Roamer's first auto?

    I took a punt on this one, in the hope it held an early in-house MST auto...



    The style is mid 50s and a nice size at 33mm. I suspected it held an MST 420/421 which came in 1956.



    What can I say, some days you get lucky...

    An MST 411. It is not in Rolands database, and as far as I have been able to work out by a process of elimination, the MST410/411 is most likely Roamer's first rotor auto. It may even be their first inhouse automatic. This one is rose gold 17 Jewels. The 410 has a sub second, 411 sweep second.

    Hence watch dates to the early 50s (pre 1956).



    The balance is almost completely hidden.



    The 410/411 seems to be pretty rare, I have not seen another for sale, and the only other I have found on the web is here (his dates are wrong BTW). CousinsUK also has the datasheet on-line. I am pretty happy to have found this one, and in such good condition.


    While I am confident that it is Roamer's first rotor auto, I am not sure it if it is Roamer's first in-house auto, as I have seen a bumper - and one may be in the mail to me right now. However, my suspicion is that the bumper was not in-house - this is the one I missed out on the 'bay a long time ago:



    Somehow it doesn't look very MST to me, so I suspect the one that is coming will also not be MST in house calibre. In any case, a bumper Roamer is worth having any day.

    I am also happy because I just got given this 1961/66 movement catalogue:

    Last edited by trim; December 7th, 2010 at 07:27.

  2. #2
    Member Marrick's Avatar
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    Re: Roamer's first auto?

    Awesome. Can you find anything through the patent numbers?
    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects."

    Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)


    Please don't PM me to ask for a valuation - I won't attempt one.

  3. #3
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    Re: Roamer's first auto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marrick View Post
    Awesome. Can you find anything through the patent numbers?
    I wouldn't know where to start looking for old patents. I looked up swissreg.ch under the numbers, MST and Roamer and only found 3 later ones from the 70s. I don't know where to find these older ones.

    I'm thinking of doing a website on Roamer autos, as there isn't much out there...
    Last edited by trim; December 7th, 2010 at 09:21.

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  5. #4
    Member AbslomRob's Avatar
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    Re: Roamer's first auto?

    Found one patent:
    espacenet — Bibliographic data

    It was written in 1948. Looks like it's for the bi-directional gearing of the auto.
    Last edited by AbslomRob; December 7th, 2010 at 14:44.
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  6. #5
    Member billybobman's Avatar
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    Re: Roamer's first auto?

    Fascinating
    Last edited by billybobman; December 7th, 2010 at 22:10.

  7. #6
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    Re: Roamer's first auto?

    Quote Originally Posted by AbslomRob View Post
    Found one patent:
    espacenet — Bibliographic data

    It was written in 1948. Looks like it's for the bi-directional gearing of the auto.
    Thanks Rob. Very interesting. Especially because this watch sounds like no other auto I have worn. It whirrs as it winds in the most spectacular way

    I have found the other patent, it has the date 1951 - it is "Combined normal and automatic winding up".

    I think I will be playing with the patent search for the rest of the day Fun!
    Last edited by trim; December 7th, 2010 at 19:42.

  8. #7
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    Re: Roamer's first auto?

    Patents....

    272613 - bi-directional full rotor winding with small lost angle. (deposited 1948, granted 1950)



    274012 - decoupling of manual and automatic winding mechanisms. (deposited 1948, granted 1951)



    This was clearly a significant movement for MST.
    Last edited by trim; December 7th, 2010 at 21:14.

  9. #8
    Member radger's Avatar
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    Re: Roamer's first auto?

    Nice looking watch with an interesting movement.
    Look forward to your Roamer web site.

  10. #9
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    Re: Roamer's first auto?

    Quote Originally Posted by radger View Post
    Nice looking watch with an interesting movement.
    Look forward to your Roamer web site.
    Thanks. My impression of this patent is that they got the gearing right and that auto module will never wear out. Its pretty cool.

  11. #10
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    Re: Roamer's first auto?

    Ok, so... the watch that may or may not have been a Roamer bumper has arrived. And, it is indeed a bumper, just like the one I saw on ebay last year (movement photo in original post). Weeee???

    Now, I do think this is on the rare side - I can't find any mention of it in any materials I have. It must be 40s rather than 50s, as the full rotor 410 was in production by then. I am still not convinced that this is an MST movement, but I can't find a match under any manufacturer on Ranfft or Cousins.









    Can anyone ID it? I am all out of ideas until I pull the dial...

    It was sold as a runner, but as you might imagine - it aint.

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