Solid gold UG Polerouter dial.
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  1. #1
    Member Elvis Silva's Avatar
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    Solid gold UG Polerouter dial.

    Hello, everyone. I'd like some help with a solid gold UG Polerouter from mid/late fifties, equipped with caliber 215. My main concern is its dial: does it strike you as original? Here are some pictures:

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    "We can forgive a man for making a useful thing as long as he does not admire it. The only excuse for making a useless thing is that one admires it intensely.
    All art is quite useless."

    Oscar Wilde


    "Vou-me embora pra Pasárgada
    Lá sou amigo do rei
    Lá tenho a mulher que eu quero
    Na cama que escolherei."

    Manuel Bandeira

  2. #2
    Member Dan S's Avatar
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    Re: Solid gold UG Polerouter dial.

    At first glance it looks quite good to me. My only concern is the absence of SWISS at the bottom. However, I took a quick look on Google Images and was able to find a small number of examples without SWISS.
    -- Dan (formerly known as @badbackdan)
    ------- @oldwatchdan on Instagram -------

  3. #3
    Member SethThomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elvis Silva View Post
    Hello, everyone. I'd like some help with a solid gold UG Polerouter from mid/late fifties, equipped with caliber 215. My main concern is its dial: does it strike you as original? Here are some pictures:

    Name:  polerouter1.jpg
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    The crosshairs give me concern. Specifically the 9:00 line seems to have ink blots on the very end and in the center. They are also very dark
    Core Collection:
    BlancpaiN Fifty Fathoms Bathyscaphe ceramic, H. Moser & Cie Venture Small Seconds 2327-0402, Omega Aqua Terra 231.53.39.21.06.002, JLC Reverso Flyback Chrono 255.182, JLC Reverso Grande Taille 270.3.62, Rolex OP 1966 1002, Ulysee Nardin Perpetual GMT 321-22, Longines Conquest 1959, Hamilton Electric Spectra 1957, Citizen AQ 4020–54Y, Bulova Accutron Astronaut

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  5. #4
    Member SethThomas's Avatar
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    Edit: Just found the Ebay listing. It very specifically says that the dial has been redone.
    Core Collection:
    BlancpaiN Fifty Fathoms Bathyscaphe ceramic, H. Moser & Cie Venture Small Seconds 2327-0402, Omega Aqua Terra 231.53.39.21.06.002, JLC Reverso Flyback Chrono 255.182, JLC Reverso Grande Taille 270.3.62, Rolex OP 1966 1002, Ulysee Nardin Perpetual GMT 321-22, Longines Conquest 1959, Hamilton Electric Spectra 1957, Citizen AQ 4020–54Y, Bulova Accutron Astronaut

  6. #5
    Zenith Forum Co-moderator
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    Re: Solid gold UG Polerouter dial.

    Quote Originally Posted by SethThomas View Post
    Edit: Just found the Ebay listing. It very specifically says that the dial has been redone.
    When the crosshairs go through letters rather than between them - and then not even through the exact centre of the letters - I usually have little doubt that it is a redial.

    Hartmut Richter
    redcow and QuartzCrisis like this.

  7. #6
    Member Elvis Silva's Avatar
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    Re: Solid gold UG Polerouter dial.

    Thank you, gentlemen. I also noticed that black dot on the left portion of the horizontal crosshair and imagined it could be a tell-tale sign of a redial.

    Nonetheless, allow me to add some observations, resulting from further research: I consulted the photo gallery available at universalgenevepolerouter.com and searched the dial that should be attached to the piece's exact reference, which is 10357-2: except for the crosshair lines, fonts seem to be quite allright on the specimen I've shown you (at least to my eye).

    On the website's picture, the lines are indeed interrupted on the dial's inscriptions. But this configuration doesn't appear in all dial patterns: one can notice that crosshair lines on references 10375-6, 104503-2 and 104601-2, for example, are solid and do go throught some letters ("E", in "Universal"; "M" in "Automatic"; "O" in "Microtor").

    That said, I'm left with the impression that this particular specimen might be some "partial" redial, since its dial is quite similar to the one I found on my research for reference 10357-1 and fonts do seem original. Actually, even the crosshair lines appear to be somewhat coherent with UG visual codes then applied to these models. But then again, it could be only my untrained eye. I hope this can add something to the discussion.
    "We can forgive a man for making a useful thing as long as he does not admire it. The only excuse for making a useless thing is that one admires it intensely.
    All art is quite useless."

    Oscar Wilde


    "Vou-me embora pra Pasárgada
    Lá sou amigo do rei
    Lá tenho a mulher que eu quero
    Na cama que escolherei."

    Manuel Bandeira

  8. #7
    Member Dan S's Avatar
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    Re: Solid gold UG Polerouter dial.

    As mentioned above, the seller explicitly says that the dial has been refinished, so I don't understand the continued discussion. He has the advantage of seeing the dial in-person, and obviously has no motivation to say that it's a re-dial if it's actually original. If the fonts and alignment are good, that simply means it's a fairly good re-dial.

    The idea of a partial re-dial is highly speculative and pointless. Once it is determined that something on the dial is not original, once must conclude it has been repainted. Can you imagine a seller saying "the fonts are original but the cross-hairs have been repainted, so the watch has had a partial re-dial"? He would be ridiculed.

    That said, if you like the watch, and you are willing to convince yourself that it's a "partial re-dial", then just buy it. You don't need our permission. And the seller is being completely up-front about the dial so you have nothing to complain about.
    Last edited by Dan S; 1 Day Ago at 17:51.
    -- Dan (formerly known as @badbackdan)
    ------- @oldwatchdan on Instagram -------

  9. #8
    Member Elvis Silva's Avatar
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    Re: Solid gold UG Polerouter dial.

    Actually, I did not find this one for sale on eBay. It is offered for sale on a brazilian website. Sorry, I should have informed this detail earlier.

    I'm not sure if we are talking about the same watches, since I haven't seen the ad mentioned by Seth. The brazilian vendor clearly states that the piece is all original. So, my observations are hardly pointless.

    And frankly, I'm not trying to convince myself of anything, nor am I requesting any sort of permission. I just thought those details could be interesting for the discussion and useful for anyone else going after a good Polerouter specimen and looking for info here in WUS.
    "We can forgive a man for making a useful thing as long as he does not admire it. The only excuse for making a useless thing is that one admires it intensely.
    All art is quite useless."

    Oscar Wilde


    "Vou-me embora pra Pasárgada
    Lá sou amigo do rei
    Lá tenho a mulher que eu quero
    Na cama que escolherei."

    Manuel Bandeira

  10. #9
    Member Dan S's Avatar
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    Re: Solid gold UG Polerouter dial.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elvis Silva View Post
    I'm not sure if we are talking about the same watches, since I haven't seen the ad mentioned by Seth. The brazilian vendor clearly states that the piece is all original. So, my observations are hardly pointless.
    Have you bothered to look on eBay? It is obviously the same watch, with the same photos, and the seller says the dial is refinished. Good thing I'm not too lazy to find it:
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Uni...19068804e82409
    -- Dan (formerly known as @badbackdan)
    ------- @oldwatchdan on Instagram -------

  11. #10
    Member Elvis Silva's Avatar
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    Re: Solid gold UG Polerouter dial.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan S View Post
    Have you bothered to look on eBay? It is obviously the same watch, with the same photos, and the seller says the dial is refinished. Good thing I'm not too lazy to find it:
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Uni...19068804e82409
    We're on a bad mood, aren't we, Daniel?? Manners used to be better on this forum. For your information, I looked for the ad on eBay and wasn't able to find it, have no idea why.

    Sending me the link would have done it. There was no necessity of any kind of personal attack, like calling me lazy. For goodness sake, man, chill out!! Don't know, go take your chihuahua for a walk and have an ice-cream. No chihuahua? Just have the ice-cream. It might help.

    Best regards from sunny Brazil!
    "We can forgive a man for making a useful thing as long as he does not admire it. The only excuse for making a useless thing is that one admires it intensely.
    All art is quite useless."

    Oscar Wilde


    "Vou-me embora pra Pasárgada
    Lá sou amigo do rei
    Lá tenho a mulher que eu quero
    Na cama que escolherei."

    Manuel Bandeira

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