Some help needed please

Thread: Some help needed please

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  1. #1
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    Some help needed please

    Hello all -

    I am brand new to the watch community and know next to nothing about the history and workmanship of watches. I recently purchased the Illinois watch attached in the photos. I believe it is from 1923, but I'm not sure.

    The info and questions I have are as follows:

    WATCH
    (Springfield) Illinois Watch Company
    1923 (is this right?)
    19 Jewels (what does this mean?)
    serial # 4165229
    double roller (is this a type of movement?)
    adjusted 3 positions (not sure what this means either)

    CASE
    Star Case Watch Company
    14k Gold Filled (does this refer to only the case, or part of the watch?)
    model 177
    serial #9107006
    There are also 5 other serial numbers hand etched on the inside of the case (are these from additional owners? insurance?)

    The watch keeps absolutely perfect time down to the second over a 24 hour period and has no noticeable scratches either on the crystal (is it crystal or glass?) or on the metal case.
    While I have no intention at all of selling it, in addition to any history help I'd also be interested to know an estimate of it's monetary value if anyone could help...

    Thank you so much for all your advice in advance, I am in love with this watch.

    Sidewalk
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  2. #2
    Member Ray MacDonald's Avatar
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    Re: Some help needed please

    Moved to Vintage for help by the experts there.

    There are fathers who do not love their children; there is no grandfather who does not adore his grandson. ~ Victor Hugo

  3. #3
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    Re: Some help needed please

    Thanks for repositioning my post !
    Sidewalk

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  5. #4
    Omega Forum Moderator emmanuelgoldstein's Avatar
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    Re: Some help needed please

    The year of production is approximately 1923 according to the serial number you provided. 14k GF refers to the casing of the pocket watch. You have yourself a beautiful pocket watch. I am sure the more knowledgeable members will chime in.

    From Wikipedia.

    Jewel bearings were invented and introduced in watches by Nicolas Fatio (or Facio) de Duillier and Pierre and Jacob Debaufre around 1702[5][6] to reduce friction. They did not become widely used until the mid 19th century. Until the 20th century they were ground from tiny pieces of natural gems. Watches often had garnet, quartz, or even glass jewels; only top quality watches used sapphire, ruby, or diamond.[5] In 1902, a process to grow artificial sapphire crystals was invented, making jewels much cheaper. Jewels in modern watches are all synthetic sapphire or (usually) ruby, made of corundum (Al2O3), one of the hardest substances known. The only difference between sapphire and ruby is that different impurities have been added to change the color; there is no difference in their properties as a bearing.[7] The advantage of using jewels is that their ultrahard slick surface has a lower coefficient of friction with metal. The static coefficient of friction of steel-on-steel is 0.58, while that of sapphire-on-steel is 0.10-0.15.[8]
    [edit] Why they are used

    Jewels serve two purposes in a watch.[9] First, reduced friction can increase accuracy. Friction in the wheel train bearings and the escapement causes slight variations in the impulses applied to the balance wheel, causing variations in the rate of timekeeping. The low, predictable friction of jewel surfaces reduces these variations. Second, they can increase the life of the bearings. In unjeweled bearings, the pivots of the watch's wheels rotate in holes in the plates supporting the movement. The sideways force applied by the driving gear causes more pressure and friction on one side of the hole. In some of the wheels, the rotating shaft can eventually wear away the hole until it is oval shaped, and the watch stops.
    “Education is the inculcation of the incomprehensible into the indifferent by the incompetent”

    -- John Maynard Keynes

  6. #5
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    Re: Some help needed please

    Thanks very much for your info, I forgot to mention in my original post that I think the watch is 14 size (about 41 mm across the front edges of the face), if that is relevant to anything...
    Sidewalk

  7. #6
    Member Erik_H's Avatar
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    Re: Some help needed please

    It is a 16 size 19j pendant set grade 306 produced in 1922. There were 28680 made between 1911 and 1925. There is a possibility the dial has been changed as it should have had a double sunk enamel dial. The case looks to be a newer model with shorter pendant as well.
    Erik_H
    Member NAWCC Chapter 149

  8. #7
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    Re: Some help needed please

    Thanks for your info Erik, yes I see that it may be a 16 size, I think I was under measuring it...
    The serial number, according to this chart
    http://www.pocketwatchsite.com/illinoisserials.html
    leads me to believe it was 1923, could you tell me your reason for saying 1922?
    Just curious, I don't doubt your experience, just trying to figure out the methods, etc... Also, any value estimate?

    Thanks so much !!
    S

  9. #8
    Member Marrick's Avatar
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    Re: Some help needed please

    Quote Originally Posted by sidewalk View Post
    Also, any value estimate?

    Thanks so much !!
    S
    Sorry - we don't do valuations in here. See sticky for reasons why.
    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects."

    Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)


    Please don't PM me to ask for a valuation - I won't attempt one.

  10. #9
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    Re: Some help needed please

    Ah - Ok, no problem...
    Any sites where I could get some value information you are aware of?
    Thanks for all your answers...
    S

  11. #10
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    Re: Some help needed please

    PS - Would this watch be classified as a railroad watch?

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