In Surprise Ruling, COMCO Halts Swatch Group Escapement Cuts
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    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    In Surprise Ruling, COMCO Halts Swatch Group Escapement Cuts

    May-be not appropriate for Vintage forum, if not a mod can move. I only post here:

    In Surprise Ruling, COMCO Halts Swatch Group Escapement Cuts
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
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    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

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    Re: In Surprise Ruling, COMCO Halts Swatch Group Escapement Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by HOROLOGIST007 View Post
    May-be not appropriate for Vintage forum, if not a mod can move. I only post here:
    Well, we're also a pocket watch forum, and this impacts new pocket watches. I suppose small swiss companies could source hairsprings from China...

    There's a certain parallelism going on here between the modern Swiss/Asian and the American/Swiss situation in the early 20th century. Like the Swiss, the Americans were seeing their business being eroded by a competitor that had lower labor costs. The Americans surivived for a while by consolidating and focusing on protecting their high-end businesses (not unlike what the Swiss are doing/have done), but eventually had to work with the Swiss and ultimately were absorbed by them. Foreshadowing?
    My growing collection of "affordable" vintages: http://www.abslomrob.com

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    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: In Surprise Ruling, COMCO Halts Swatch Group Escapement Cuts

    Not sure in my opinion this is same scenario.

    For certain the Japanese destroyed shipbuilding, the car industry then semiconductor industry in Europe and America, then the Koreans took it from the Japanese, then the Taiwanese from them, and finally China from Taiwan
    Last night I heard that China shipbuilding industry is too in decline.

    In this case Hayek Snr made a bold decision to stop supplying his competitors first with ebauches, then balance wheels/springs. He gave two reasons:

    1) Why should he supply his 'competitors' especially the ones with NO overheads, shops or manufacturing who were destroying the price?
    2) If SWATCH group was the only company that could make movement, how could an industry survive? This COMCO fully agreed with.
    AND Since then, we have seen most if not all the major manufacturers developing and making their own movements - most better if not equal to SWATCH.

    So for movements/ebauches Hayek Snr made a bold but good decision.
    Problem is gearing up to make a movement, may be costly, but once done can pay off. Trying to manufacture your own balance spring/escapement for a production of a say 10,000 watches is just not possible.
    Hence I suspect COMPCO latest U Turn.

    For certain all industry's need competition, Hayek has started that, the SWISS just need to ensure they do not destroy (by limiting essential parts) themselves
    Regards
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

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    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: In Surprise Ruling, COMCO Halts Swatch Group Escapement Cuts

    In addition to my comment above, you may like to listen to this
    In conversation with Nick Hayek, CEO Swatch Group

    Its 45 mins and possible the firsy 15 mins are a lesser content, but it surely gets most interesting.
    here
    In conversation with Nick Hayek, CEO Swatch Group | Watch-Insider.com
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

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    Re: In Surprise Ruling, COMCO Halts Swatch Group Escapement Cuts

    A totally predictable, completely conservative, utterly Swiss decision Thanks for sharing this latest news Adam; the politics of watches are nearly as interesting as the watches themselves!
    Tick Talk says, "A watch in the hand is worth two on the wrist"

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    Member AbslomRob's Avatar
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    Re: In Surprise Ruling, COMCO Halts Swatch Group Escapement Cuts

    One of my horological mantras is that if you want to understand the businesses that build watches, you have to understand the business of building watches. Much of horological history (especially 20th century horology) is defined more by the laws and trade practices of the companies involved, and less by the actual mechanics of watch functionality.
    My growing collection of "affordable" vintages: http://www.abslomrob.com

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    Re: In Surprise Ruling, COMCO Halts Swatch Group Escapement Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Tick Talk View Post
    A totally predictable, completely conservative, utterly Swiss decision Thanks for sharing this latest news Adam; the politics of watches are nearly as interesting as the watches themselves!
    Thanks
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

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    Re: In Surprise Ruling, COMCO Halts Swatch Group Escapement Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by AbslomRob View Post
    One of my horological mantras is that if you want to understand the businesses that build watches, you have to understand the business of building watches. Much of horological history (especially 20th century horology) is defined more by the laws and trade practices of the companies involved, and less by the actual mechanics of watch functionality.
    and you think Hayek Snr (the unbelievable savior of the Swiss watch industry - after saving it - would he destroy it?) and his son, not understand "the business of buliding watches"
    nope - they know more than we can ever surmise
    A
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

  10. #9
    Member Eeeb's Avatar
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    Re: In Surprise Ruling, COMCO Halts Swatch Group Escapement Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by HOROLOGIST007 View Post
    Not sure in my opinion this is same scenario.

    For certain the Japanese destroyed shipbuilding, the car industry then semiconductor industry in Europe and America, then the Koreans took it from the Japanese, then the Taiwanese from them, and finally China from Taiwan
    Last night I heard that China shipbuilding industry is too in decline.
    I am not sure where you are getting your economic history but automobile and semiconductor industries in America are doing quite fine. The decline of the shipbuilding industry is not much I know about but may have to do it structuring itself around supplying only one customer. And that customer stopped ordering Liberty Ships a long while ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by HOROLOGIST007 View Post

    In this case Hayek Snr made a bold decision to stop supplying his competitors first with ebauches, then balance wheels/springs. He gave two reasons:

    1) Why should he supply his 'competitors' especially the ones with NO overheads, shops or manufacturing who were destroying the price?
    Well, maybe the answer is because Swatch was allowed to create a monopoly by buying up all the relevant suppliers. In the US, anti-trust laws prevent this from happening. In Switzerland it is allowed to happen but the trust can then be forced to supply competitors.

    Quote Originally Posted by HOROLOGIST007 View Post
    2) If SWATCH group was the only company that could make movement, how could an industry survive?
    Good point but, again, this is the expected result when you buy up all the movement makers!!

    Quote Originally Posted by HOROLOGIST007 View Post
    This COMCO fully agreed with.
    AND Since then, we have seen most if not all the major manufacturers developing and making their own movements - most better if not equal to SWATCH.
    And without the economies of scale they used to have... and with the burden of immense R&D and investment in new manufacturing.

    Quote Originally Posted by HOROLOGIST007 View Post

    So for movements/ebauches Hayek Snr made a bold but good decision.
    Problem is gearing up to make a movement, may be costly, but once done can pay off. Trying to manufacture your own balance spring/escapement for a production of a say 10,000 watches is just not possible.
    Hence I suspect COMPCO latest U Turn.

    For certain all industry's need competition, Hayek has started that, the SWISS just need to ensure they do not destroy (by limiting essential parts) themselves
    Regards
    A Nobel prize was awarded for the inventor of the steel used in hairsprings. It is not normal spring steel. Krupp is the only supplier in Europe. Swatch buys their entire production. I believe it is only made once every several years.

    In anti-trust terms this is called 'cornering the market'. It is illegal in the US. COMPCO decided it was bad for Switzerland. (TAGHeuer has to buy their hairsprings from Seiko nowadays for their own 1887 chrono movement.)
    "Forever is composed of nows." - Emily Dickinson

    "The watch has to be surrounded by a history.
    You need more than just a great design. You need to create an atmosphere around the product.
    Who is the company behind it? Why are they using this material?
    People need to be able to identify the watch with themselves. It's based on emotion." - Ralph Furter

    ...that's just my opinion and I've been wrong before and will be again and might be now!

  11. #10
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: In Surprise Ruling, COMCO Halts Swatch Group Escapement Cuts

    Eeeb
    I lived these industries
    When I entered the Semiconductor Industry there were some 22 American/European semiconductor manufacturers
    Now you have Intel (maybe AMD) Europe has none.

    I am not answering any more your post.
    Let readers decide

    END
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

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