Swept store ..a very unusual Billodes
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  1. #1
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    Swept store ..a very unusual Billodes

    Two years ago in the summertime I bought on a market a very crazy "Billodes". On the first sight I recognized not matching hands and no second:

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    THis 4,8 diameter and 1,12 mm flat silver sovonette without any decoration caught my attention especially as I recognized the Billodes logo inside the cover. The view on the movement surprised me even more:

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    The size and the style cry: Swiss ladys pocket watch movement for the english market around 1880/1900. On a market no time for research but the prize match and I take this curious thing with me. At home I saw at first the very unusual fixing of the metal dial and encasing ring:

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    Well done but just sightable srews and the dial never owns feeds before. Diagnose: Probably tinker. I searched within the databases and found this style in the Rössler at page 62 in a tula savonnette but with several smal differences. Okay next step: A view on the dialside

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    Hmm ..this doesn't look very uncommun to me if you compare other GF-J movements with the click on the dialside:

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    (278 variation and defi variation)

    Here some other details of the "pure" groundplatine. The place for the winding system seems to be milled later on but before gilding:

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    This match with the picture I get that raw movements sometimes have been put in the tock without gilding. I own one probably two bass movements who've never got any finish (gold,nickel etc.)

    A friend of mine told me: swept store but I didn't want to think to "positive" and put it as interesting tinker beside. Last week I saw a ebay offer I unfortunately missed. I'm annoyed about it very but the friendly seller allowed me to use his pictures here (thank you Miroslv/Mir1234). It's a Rheingold (registred brand by GFJ) with a very simular case and movement:

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    You find the brand logo in the case over. The case i as well pure polished silver without engraving just 3 holes reveal that there have been an aplication. The hole watch I would date around 1900:

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    Therefore I personal think now: Case and movement of my billodes are orginal out of the maufacture. I examed the dialfeed screws and they seems to be never used. I don't have any idea how his timemix could excit but it does . All thoughts or critics are wellcomed.

    Regards Silke
    eri231 likes this.
    That's what I think about today:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlUGeY7MWVo

  2. #2
    Zenith Forum Co-moderator
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    Re: Swept store ..a very unusual Billodes

    Very interesting. Without the second watch, I would have said that yours had a replacement 3/4 plate on the movement that never saw the Le Locle factory (i.e. independently made). What I also find interesting is the hairspring attachment and fine adjustment which are happily the same on both watches (and therefore presumably original).

    Hartmut Richter

  3. #3
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    Re: Swept store ..a very unusual Billodes

    THank you Hartmut for your toughts. Independent fro the hairspring attachmend I wondered really to see the srew heads by the balancecapstone holder. This is very unusuall for swiss products even for "englsh design". Another unusual part is the golden coloured leverweel you usually see as well more commun in england:

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    Here the definetly swiss movement without plate. Because of the really identical case of the Rheingold only out of another aera I believe now the swept store theorie. Maybe a trainee project or just generate some smal money out of the stock.

    Regards Silke
    That's what I think about today:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlUGeY7MWVo

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  5. #4
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    Re: Swept store ..a very unusual Billodes

    What I find somewhat surprising is that yours lacks a second hand though the movement is equipped to have one. Is your movement smaller than the Rheingold watch calibre? That might explain it, but if your watch is 48mm in diameter, your movement should not be that small.....

    Hartmut Richter

  6. #5
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    Re: Swept store ..a very unusual Billodes

    Now the watch is complete now and hard to measure exactly but I'd noticed 14''' therefore it hould be 31-31,5 cm in diameter. This match with Ladys movemends. I'd checked and couldn't pind a pilled pin or a rubie with a hole for it. The basic conzept seems to be without secons. I'm not sure which parts you could find in the stock those times. The way the stones are formed seems to me quite modern also. I'm very sad that I missed the Rheingold ..may be I find another compareable watch someday.

    Regards Silke
    That's what I think about today:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlUGeY7MWVo

  7. #6
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    Re: Swept store ..a very unusual Billodes

    So did they say anything about the size of the Rheingold in the auction? If it is of the same calibre family but rather bigger, it would not be surprising that yours lacks a small seconds hand but the Rheingold has it. If the Rheingold is of the same size, it is a little puzzling. Especially since the Rheingold is just an old stock movement they were trying to clear out.

    Having said that, the Rheingold seems to have the same fat movement holder ring which points to a somewhat smaller movement in a large case.....

    Hartmut Richter

  8. #7
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    Re: Swept store ..a very unusual Billodes

    I's asked the seller. The style of the cases seems complete identical. He is friendly but a Grocer and didn't make exact notices. It was definetly bigger : Size 10S - full 60 mm. THe pictures are still there: Rheingold Ancre15 Silver Pocket Watch . | eBay

    Regards Silke
    That's what I think about today:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlUGeY7MWVo

  9. #8
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    Re: Swept store ..a very unusual Billodes

    Thanks for the link. No size indication in there but I'll definitely take your word for it.

    Hartmut Richter

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