Are these really from WWII?

Thread: Are these really from WWII?

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  1. #1
    Member Niordian's Avatar
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    Are these really from WWII?

    Hi,

    Can someone advise are these worth collecting?
    Are they made to look vintage?

    http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-WWII-Ger...QQcmdZViewItem

    http://cgi.ebay.com/B357-Russian-Air...QQcmdZViewItem

    Will be greatful if someone can give a few pointers.

  2. #2
    Member JohnF's Avatar
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    Re: Are these really from WWII?

    Hi -

    Beware, beware, beware, beware.

    There are rather unscrupulous Ukrainian dealers who make up watches out of bits and pieces of others. Not worth it.

    JohnF
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  3. #3
    stuffler,mike
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    Re: Are these really from WWII?

    First seller clearly states that the watch offered is a "soviet copy". And to add that it´s a bad copy because the German "Beobachtungsuhren" of WW II had no seconds sub dial:



    The German term „Beobachtungsuhr“ goes back to pilot´s watches of WW II. Strictly translated it has to be an „Observer´s watch“ or „Observation watch“ but on most watch related fora you`ll read „navigator´s watch“, „pilot´s watch“, „B-watch“ or even „Flieger“, which is the expression I like most.

    These B-watches have been made for the German Luftwaffe by only 5 manufacturers

    A. Lange & Söhne
    Laco (Lacher & Co)
    Stowa (Walter Storz)
    Wempe (Chronometerwerke Hamburg)
    IWC

    and contained high quality pocket watch movements:

    Lange & Söhne: cal. 48/1
    (due to limited capacities watches have been assembled by Huber/Munich, Felsing/Berlin, Schieron/Stuttgart, Schätzle & Tschudin/Pforzheim, Wempe/Hamburg).
    Laco: Durowe cal. D 5
    Stowa: Unitas cal. 2812
    Wempe: Thommen cal. 31
    IWC: cal. 52 SC (SC= „seconde central“)



    The specifications of these watches had been defined by the „Reichsluftfahrtministerium“ (RLM) – Imperial Air Ministry.

    Due to those specifications all B-watches had the following features in common:

    - A case diameter of 55 mm
    - Marked on the back with FL 23883 (FL = flight, 23 = navigation)
    - Equipped with large crowns in order to be used with gloves
    - Hacking movement (the second hand stops when pulling out the crown / essential for a precise time setting)
    - Breguet balance spring
    - Regulated and tested as chronometers
    - Long leather strap (to be worn on the sleeve of a flight jacket).

    If your are interested in watches of WW II and their history I recommend to visit the hompage of Konrad Knirim (www.knirim.de) . From time to time Konrad shows up on WatchUseek.

    The second seller refers to LACO. Whatever the intention of the seller is - the watch shown can´t be seen as a Laco copy because the Laco watches looked different. If the watches had been (officially) issued to CCCP-pilot´s I can´t tell. I´d say they aren´t worth an investment. Maybe you should try to ask on our PMF where you´ll find more expertise.

    BTW: Welcome to Watchuseek !

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  5. #4
    Member Niordian's Avatar
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    Re: Are these really from WWII?

    Thank you for the priceless information!!:thanks

  6. #5
    Breitling Forum Moderator SnapIT's Avatar
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    Re: Are these really from WWII?

    Its amazing what one might find on ones hard disk. This watch came up for sale about two years ago. I believe the provenance was impeccable and the final bid price for this watch was in excess of US$2000. It is always a privilege for me to see a fine example and be able to fix its qualities in my minds eye. I hope this helps and can be a solid reference for you in the future.
    Attached Images Attached Images











    Cheers,
    SnapIT

    Seize the day, it ain't coming around again. . . .
    Click to check for the correct time around the world..

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