Tissot caliber 27
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  1. #1
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    Tissot caliber 27

    Forgot I had this one, and uncovered it a few days ago.

    In the process of doing a little research on what I have here. From what I can read, these were ordered after the war? Anyone have any other info on that "No. OH" designation? I found a chart that dates the movement to 1945. I really like the watch because it is a large size (35mm in diameter not counting the crown). I have seen some variations on this watch but mine doesn't have the jewel count on the movement.

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    Anyway I couldn't wear it because the lugs are messed up, but a friend of mine is going to solder wire lugs to it so I can wear it on a nylon strap. It runs and keeps perfect time, but I'll go ahead and clean it all up after he fixes the lugs.

    Ron
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  2. #2
    Member mkws's Avatar
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    Re: Tissot caliber 27

    I do have some info. First of all, it's not the basic calibre 27. Sub-second + Shock-Resist= cal. 27-3.
    Some movements from the 27 family had jewel count on them, some didn't. The majority of them were signed just as yours, or even another way- with just a "Tissot" and a serial under the balance (that's the case with the 1930s and early 1940s pieces!).
    Keep in mind, that even if you see a 27-series calibre signed not with a "Tissot" and "Swiss", but a "CHs Tissot & Fils" + jewel count, both types should be correct, that often. Although the more "complicated" type with jewel count would have been used . This movement was in production 1940-1949, and the latter sort of signature is most often found on movements made at the end of the 1940s and on. Various Tissot movements of the 1930s and 1940s (well, the majority of them being derivatives of the cal.27) were signed differently throughout the entire production run.

    So, generally, there were three types of marking patterns:
    1. Tissot + serial no. (1930s- early 1940s)
    2. Tissot, Swiss, serial no. (mid 1940s)
    3. CHs Tissot & Fils, Swiss, X jewels, serial no. (late 1940s and on)

    If not for that "military" case number, authenticity of which I am not capable of verifying, the watch looks quite civilian to me.
    bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: Tissot 27-3

    As you can see in the Ranfft archive, there are two examples of different patterns of markings listed for the 27-3.
    Truth be told, these are also the only 2 types of markings I've seen on any 27-3. One with a jewel count... I'm not sure if such a combination would have existed, I haven't seen one.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Tissot caliber 27

    It looks a lot like all the Dienstuhr designs of the 1940s. ORD might stand for ordnance.
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  5. #4
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    Re: Tissot caliber 27

    Ken (hq_sandman_ute), very knowledgeable guy on MWR thinks these are ORD designated for the us military.

    another OH watch surfaces....

    I have read somewhere these are captured watches that once belonged to enemy forces, that were "re-assigned" to the ORD CORPS, but I can't verify this.
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  6. #5
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    Re: Tissot caliber 27

    The engraving looks shoddy, and that's putting it mildly. I guess that this all might be an example of finding a way to "legitimize" such an engraving on a civilian watch.

    The practice of engraving military markings on civilian watches most certainly took place in the last months of WW2, when the Wehrmacht was confiscating* watches from civilians on a large scale, and issuing them to the German troops. The story of these practices is now massively exploited by fakers, not only the Ukrainian ones. Even gold Chronographe Suisse appear with fake "DH" markings!

    Looking at the quality of this engraving, I highly doubt that the "partially worn off" letter "A" was ever complete- which might be a pure coincidence, or the result of a forgery.

    What the Wehrmacht was doing, was caused by a shortage of new equipment- did the US Army have a shortage of supplies, which would force them to confiscate* watches?

    While I respect the opinions of experts, I must disagree with this one. Even if issuing of confiscated* watches by the US Army did actually take place, it's such a great opportunity for counterfeiters, that just wouldn't stay unexploited- not for long, at least.

    Personally, I would recommend staying away from such watches. There is no resource, which would make it possible to tell the real deal from the fake. I'm pretty certain, that there are ways to make an engraving look older than it really is, and probably not complicated ones...


    *Read: stealing, robbing, etc.
    I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it.
    Edgar Allan Poe

    If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
    George Orwell

    (...)but that's what mankind is like: they only prize what they no longer possess.
    Erich Maria Remarque

    For any inquiries regarding vintage Doxa watches, please read the highlighted text in my vintage Doxa thread. Sorry, but I will not respond to PMs on the matter.

  7. #6
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    Re: Tissot caliber 27

    Quote Originally Posted by mkws View Post
    As you can see in the Ranfft archive, there are two examples of different patterns of markings listed for the 27-3.
    Truth be told, these are also the only 2 types of markings I've seen on any 27-3. One with a jewel count... I'm not sure if such a combination would have existed, I haven't seen one.
    Now you have :) Should have never sold it ofcourse but hindsight is 20/20

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    Last edited by Vintage1982; November 25th, 2015 at 21:21.

  8. #7
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    Re: Tissot caliber 27

    Serial starting with a 183= 1947. So this proves the theory about this type of markings being introduced in the late 1940s.
    Thanks- without any holy scripture on Tissot, I rely on what I have seen so far- and frankly, that's the first time I see a 27-3 marked this way.
    I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it.
    Edgar Allan Poe

    If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
    George Orwell

    (...)but that's what mankind is like: they only prize what they no longer possess.
    Erich Maria Remarque

    For any inquiries regarding vintage Doxa watches, please read the highlighted text in my vintage Doxa thread. Sorry, but I will not respond to PMs on the matter.

  9. #8
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    Re: Tissot caliber 27

    You're right. Well we're also here to learn about watches, share and learn from eachother, right? I certainly am.
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  10. #9
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    Re: Tissot caliber 27

    You certainly are right. +1 to that!
    Vintage1982 likes this.
    I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it.
    Edgar Allan Poe

    If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
    George Orwell

    (...)but that's what mankind is like: they only prize what they no longer possess.
    Erich Maria Remarque

    For any inquiries regarding vintage Doxa watches, please read the highlighted text in my vintage Doxa thread. Sorry, but I will not respond to PMs on the matter.

  11. #10
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    Re: Tissot caliber 27

    Quote Originally Posted by chuasam View Post
    It looks a lot like all the Dienstuhr designs of the 1940s. ORD might stand for ordnance.
    The presence of "non magnetic, waterproof and shock absorber" on the reverse in English pretty much tells me these had nothing
    to do with German armed forces. U.S. post-war issue? Maybe. But I doubt the supply of Hamilton, Waltham, Bulova , and Elgins were in short supply.
    They were cranking those out in such numbers that many were sold later through military surplus for years afterward.
    But anything's possible.
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