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Thread: Ukrainian Pocket Watch conversions: was - Please identify this Breguet Pocket Watch

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  1. #11
    Member Eeeb's Avatar
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    Re: Please identify this Breguet Pocket Watch

    Quote Originally Posted by radger View Post
    ... I've saw quite a few Eastern European 'Munge' jobs, offered on UK Ebay from disappointed buyers with concise, truthful and easily understood descriptions as compared to the original Ukranian elaborate, history of the brand, all bells and whistles this is a very important watch, type descriptions. They seem to achieve about a fifth to a tenth of the price the seller originaly paid.
    ...
    Not only are the mung'ers destroying collectable watches they are, as you point out, creating self-depreciating monsters that have little retained value. One of the joys of Vintage is the watches have fully depreciated and can usually be sold for around what you paid for them.

    But these are not Vintage.

    I know I was roundly criticized (in another thread) for saying they were Affordables (well, only with a broad definition of affordable - the Ukrainians get a lot for them) or Fashion watches (those buyers are really their target audience - folks who know little about watches but want something with some unique flavor of bling). But that is what they are - Fashion watches.

    And they depreciate like them too.

    On watch forums it is usually somewhat dangerous to criticize instead of praise. Often people who have bought the kinds of watches of which you are being critical are invested in them (emotionally and literally in this case given their price). So you get push-back. Oh well. (In this case the OP (original poster) behaved quite rationally. That is not always the case.)

    I see one of the major the roles of the Vintage and Pocket Watch forum to provide honest analysis, to the best of our abilities. We will sometimes disagree. That is fine as long as it isn't personal (which often happens - especially in less knowledgeable forums). Through disagreement comes better understanding (hopefully). We have seen this here before and hopefully we will continue to see it. (The 'groupthink' you sometimes see in forums does not serve this role.)

    Anyway, I see discussing these mung jobs as a fulfillment of one of our primary roles.

    I think we have become one of the premiere vintage forums on the .net... Google seems to think so too Thanks to all for that.

    BTW, 'mung' is a term I found very useful in one of my past lives as a computer programmer. It describes something you hacked together from pieces-parts and of which you are not very proud. It usually works with enough effort but is fragile and prone to high product life cycle cost. It seems descriptive of these specific Ukrainian efforts.
    "Forever is composed of nows." - Emily Dickinson

    "The watch has to be surrounded by a history.
    You need more than just a great design. You need to create an atmosphere around the product.
    Who is the company behind it? Why are they using this material?
    People need to be able to identify the watch with themselves. It's based on emotion." - Ralph Furter

    ...that's just my opinion and I've been wrong before and will be again and might be now!

  2. #12
    Member Shum's Avatar
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    Re: Please identify this Breguet Pocket Watch

    I don't know if yoiu have this problem I have. I won an auction where in I got a lot of Certina parts and I could probably build 10-12 watches with these parts and here in lies the problem. I have no idea what goes with what because there is no good documentation about vintage Certinas so what ever I build it would be a Frankenstein.

    So how should one procees? It's not like I'm trying to cheat anyone but I so want these watches back from the dead.
    Last edited by Shum; July 13th, 2013 at 16:21.

  3. #13
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: Please identify this Breguet Pocket Watch

    Just to add
    These abortions may have originated in Ukraine, but I am also seeing them sadly coming from both Israel and also USA.

    I do not like to ctiticise a race only the timepiece.


    Regards
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

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  5. #14
    Member Emre's Avatar
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    Re: Please identify this Breguet Pocket Watch

    Quote Originally Posted by HOROLOGIST007 View Post
    Just to add
    These abortions may have originated in Ukraine, but I am also seeing them sadly coming from both Israel and also USA.

    I do not like to ctiticise a race only the timepiece.


    Regards
    not to forget South America.The painful part is- after you have been educated about what you have in your hands- how to get rid of it:( And at that point, yes you lose some money and emotions in the name of being honest and not somebody else to feel the way you felt. I've made that failure also at the beginning with a South American Breitling Venus 170 aka up&down chrono and an Ukraininan Tissot case-ebauche gathering. Those guys are somehow targeting beginner vintage enthusiasts and/or people with no watch knowledge. Even though it's sometimes mentioned in their description 'marriage watch, ebauche-case gathering 'these terms don't mean a lot for beginners.3 years ago I thought marriage watch is the timepiece which is presented to the groom and bride during the wedding from parents :) seriously.And was even feeling bad, why somebody should sell their marriage watch:) oh gosh.... time is ticking, time is flowing...

  6. #15
    Member Mako's Avatar
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    Re: Please identify this Breguet Pocket Watch

    Being Ukrainian myself,I can only say "Thank you".

    I have seen these from other parts of the globe as well.Doubtful there is anything about these watches as Ukrainian "creations apart" from being shipped from

    that country.

  7. #16
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    Re: Please identify this Breguet Pocket Watch

    Hi Mako,

    the discussion of such creations is any but a discrimination of people from a particular region. Making such junk is simply a matter of regional conditions. Likely in the Ukraine there is a reasonable pool of Molnia movements, and these offer much space to engrave whole stories, matching the demand for WWII related junk.

    Another special source is India. There live lots of people, and there is an according quantity of useles watch cadavers. So they copied a Ranchero dial and printed this pattern in any color on any watch. Similar is South America, although I must admit that they have a more decent taste refering the dial design.

    This all is a matter of supply and demand. If the demand is present, it will be served by those who have the best conditions to do it - e.g. lots of Molnias, or lots of useless cadavers of any brand.

    Regards, Roland Ranfft
    Last edited by Roland Ranfft; July 14th, 2013 at 19:24.
    Emre likes this.

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