Unknown Year High Quality Elgin Pocketwatch - Page 2
Like Tree6Likes

Thread: Unknown Year High Quality Elgin Pocketwatch

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 11 to 17 of 17
  1. #11
    Sponsor thoth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,965

    Re: Unknown Year High Quality Elgin Pocketwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben_hutcherson View Post
    I know that at Waltham, employees could purchase the material at cost and use the factory machinery after hours. The practice was not only allowed, but encouraged. I suspect many other watch companies had similar systems in place.

    I've seen upgrades as simple as custom engraving to some really spectacular upgrades. A friend has an 1883 model signed "22 Diamond and Ruby Jewels" with a custom dmk and is indeed a 22 jewel watch. It's significantly upgraded from the grade of the original material. It also (presumably) bears the name of the person to whom it belonged.
    I love this stuff. I do have a question on jeweling though. I just did a disassembly of the movement. There is the jewel at the top of the barrel that is not part of the barrel. It is held in place by the ring with the 3 screws and the barrel arbor sits in the middle of it. Now after I took the barrel out I could see no jewel at the bottom of the barrel. Unless it is internal to the barrel this is a 22 jewel watch.

    Stripped down to the base plate to a certain extent. I only took a picture of the lever after this and then had to go through cleaning so I concentrated on that and assembly.




    The watch has no other numbers on it anywhere other than that weird serial number.







    Back of the dial...



    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
    radger likes this.
    https://www.ThePassthrough.com

  2. #12
    Vintage & NAWCC Forum moderator Ben_hutcherson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    2,406

    Re: Unknown Year High Quality Elgin Pocketwatch

    It's been a while since I've had an Elgin safety barrel apart, but if they're like Walthams(which I suspect they are, since in principle it's the same design) both jewels will be in the barrel cap.

    In a safety barrel-which many people-especially on the former NAWCC chapter linked earlier in this thread-like to call a "motor barrel" works backwards from a conventional going barrel or motor barrel(the latter of which is really just a type going barrel). Basically, when the watch is wound, the OUTSIDE of the barrel turns. The spring then unwinds by turning the center arbor, which is generally integral to the cap and main wheel. The jewels are in the cap, and support its rotation around the winding arbor.

    The lack of serial numbers on the individual parts is interesting...and makes me think it may have been put together in the factory by an employee using "gray" material.
    Member National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors
    Member, NAWCC Chapter 149. Vice President and Secretary NAWCC Chapter 140. Member, NAWCC Convention Committee.
    Serious collector of American pocket watches-Waltham(and the predecessor companies) is my specialty.

  3. #13
    Sponsor thoth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,965

    Re: Unknown Year High Quality Elgin Pocketwatch

    SO last night I was unhappy with how the watch was not winding smoothly. It would wind to a point then stop then go a bit more then get hard and then I started to hear a slip/click noise. I was thinking the mainspring was broken. Yes I know when to stop winding a watch. This all goes along with the fact that I noticed the winding wheel did not sit flat. Once I got the mainspring barrel out I noticed it sat a little odd. Well it is a 2 piece barrel which I assume is the safety barrel construction. I carefully opened it up and the mainsring unraveled on me...I expected it.

    Well it looks like someone did not have the right mainspring and just made do with what they had. It had the 2 tabs at the end. The hole end had been folded over. In looking at it, this was doe because they needed to flip the mainspring over because the wind is reversed. The mainspring height may be right but I am not sure. What I am sure of is 2 things, it is not the right mainspring and the extra tab was causing the barrel to sit at an angle. I filed off the other tab and thought of reinstalling when it dawned on me....why not just order an put in the correct one and not just rig it like the last guy. I ordered 2 #1712 mainsprings. I made sure to get the one specified for 19-23 jewel movements.

    Anyway, while I wait, I wanted to revisit the jewel count of the watch. In the pic below, there are no jewels. There is none on the bottom or top. There is no jewel in the pivot hole on the main plate either for the barrel. I wish to revise that it is not a 23 jewel watch but rather 22 unless there is a missing part but I don't see where a jewel would go.


    radger likes this.
    https://www.ThePassthrough.com

  4. Remove Advertisements
    WatchUSeek.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #14
    Member radger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    N.E England
    Posts
    3,383

    Re: Unknown Year High Quality Elgin Pocketwatch

    Hi Thoth,

    This is an interesting watch, nice to see in pieces.

    Ben says that both barrel jewels are in the barrel cap, is it possible
    that this is the case or have you dismantled or examined the barrel cap jewel/s and
    found only one?

    Usually, if the barrel is sitting askew, then the btm hole would need to bushed.
    Has it worn slightly oval? it is a common repair.

  6. #15
    Sponsor thoth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,965

    Re: Unknown Year High Quality Elgin Pocketwatch

    The central arbor of the barrel sits through the square hold in the top half of the barrel. That then has the lager jewel that than over it and then the ring with the 3 screws holds that jewel setting down. There are no other jewels. The actual arbor in the watch for the mainspring appears to be affixed rather permanently to the bottom half of the barrel. It does not spin or move within the barrel.

    When the watch is wound the mainspring is wound up not by the central arbor but rather the top half of the barrel. The bottom half of the barrel then drives the train. The reason the barrel was askew was that the mainspring could not sit flush in the top half due to the extra "ear". If that was not there it would have sat flush. When the pinion/arbor on tip is in the jewel it is kept centered.
    radger likes this.
    https://www.ThePassthrough.com

  7. #16
    Member radger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    N.E England
    Posts
    3,383

    Re: Unknown Year High Quality Elgin Pocketwatch

    Thank you for explaining the operation to me Thoth.
    I see now how the top half can sit askew whilst the barrel itself remains upright.

  8. #17
    Sponsor thoth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,965

    Re: Unknown Year High Quality Elgin Pocketwatch

    I am not trying to be a pain, just illustrating for everyone. I know you understand the idea radger. :)


    edit.... never mind.....darn system keeps wrecking all my work. Made a pretty picture and all. :(
    Last edited by thoth; December 16th, 2015 at 21:20.
    https://www.ThePassthrough.com

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

    Similar Threads

    1. Replies: 8
      Last Post: February 22nd, 2019, 19:32
    2. unknown vintage 14K Pocketwatch
      By LukeDuke in forum Vintage & Pocket watches
      Replies: 2
      Last Post: December 4th, 2015, 11:26
    3. Elgin military pocketwatch
      By dgf67 in forum Vintage & Pocket watches
      Replies: 9
      Last Post: June 5th, 2012, 15:19
    4. Elgin - pocketwatch
      By kibi in forum Image Gallery
      Replies: 2
      Last Post: August 27th, 2010, 09:14
    5. Old Elgin Pocketwatch
      By pjasien in forum Vintage & Pocket watches
      Replies: 3
      Last Post: May 2nd, 2009, 02:25

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •