A unusual billodes anchor movement
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Thread: A unusual billodes anchor movement

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  1. #1
    Member SilkeN's Avatar
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    A unusual billodes anchor movement

    Two weeks ago I buyed parts of a old billodes pocke watch. The movement has a rectangulär anchor and not a anchor ligne droite as you see usually. It reminds more to longines but it's definitly a billodes. My idea is, that it might be a quite early construction. One fact is that it's a key wind movement. Additional the "click" for the ratches wheel miss a spring for back pressure as I only knew in some old keywind Georges Favre- Jacot movements (definetly before 1882- missing silver silver hallmark). This races problems by the time and it was chanced in younger movements. In this case I could not use hallmarks because the case is made from silveroid (argentan/ german silver / hotelsilver ) . It has matching numbers : 76673 but I'm not sure about any chronologie during this period.
    If someone has some thoughts how I can go on to classify the age of this movement or even why it excist please: share. May be someone has surprisingly the same movement with some additional signs.

    Picture1 : the typical billodes anchor until now I've just seen as a crown winding build around 1900.
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    Picture 2 and attachment: My question
    Attached Images Attached Images

    Last edited by SilkeN; May 11th, 2014 at 03:31.
    That's what I think about today:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlUGeY7MWVo

  2. #2
    Zenith Forum Co-moderator
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    Re: A unusual billodes anchor movement

    That's very interesting. The upper movement is in the Zenith 1905 movement list whereas the lower one isn't. I would therefore presume that the lower one (which incidentally has an extra cock for the escapement gear - in the upper one, that is held by the topmost cock with the lever cock hidden) is the older one. However, I can't say that I am sure.

    Hartmut Richter
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  3. #3
    Member SilkeN's Avatar
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    Re: A unusual billodes anchor movement

    This extra cock depends on the position of the anchor and in general it was an earlier construction as the hidden "ancre ligne droite" , if you compare Lepine IV and V movements of differend swiss watchmakers. But it's not a hard fact. Styles are mixed by the swiss watch makers and you'll found this style for example in Longines movements which were build after 1900 who looks quite simular even that they have stem wind. For conservative customer/markets the swiss manufactures produced keywind movements until 1910/20 (see ottoman billodes for example) So nothing is left than looking, searching and look again. The only quite hard fact I have is the stop/click for the barrel (sorry I search but i don't find the right english words):

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    The upper construction is definitely the old unstable construction. The other one you'll find in thr movement Pic1 and "young" ottoman for example too. But it doesn't really allow to assign any age of the movement. In addition I forget to tell that the dial has no manufacture signs or decoration. Simple smal roman letters and a hand written seconds. But there are parts missing and the balance broken that I can't present a watch at the moment.

    Thanks for your reply
    Silke
    Last edited by SilkeN; May 12th, 2014 at 06:22.
    That's what I think about today:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlUGeY7MWVo

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  5. #4
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    Re: A unusual billodes anchor movement

    And thanks for the further points made. It is always intriguing to see, how movements and horology evolve in a multitude of small advances.

    Hartmut Richter

  6. #5
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    Re: A unusual billodes anchor movement

    I know that a lot of persons think "oh what an old thread" but personally I thing it make sence to reactivate a thread if the story goes on. In this case I've got a very happy day yesterday because I've got this watch together with two others in top running condition back from my excellent PW watchmaker. He always has at least one job for me to do and therefore it always takes some time until one project is finished and my buget isn't endless.

    I searched a lot and until now I didn't find another movement with this rectangulare anchor. This Billodes GFJ Logo I saw by another common billodes movement (ebay australia) with a smal serial number too. I still hope its an very old Billodes but I didn't find any facts. Maybe someone else find hints to start searching again.

    I proudly present the strong running complete watch:

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    The argatan case owns laterally offset hinges as you usually see more often on swiss watches until round about 1870/80. Then the hinges migratet towards. The dial has handwritten seconds and the minute ring also. I'm not sure about the hour numbers but they are very regulary. The golden glasring is probably a later made substitute but it fix very good and therefore I leave it this way.

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    The dustcover is unspectacular without any hints on medals or dates.

    At least I very happy present the running movement:

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    Any thoughts about age or there is still the possibility of a used raw movement from xxx are welcomed.

    Kind regards Silke
    Last edited by SilkeN; November 28th, 2014 at 12:06.
    That's what I think about today:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlUGeY7MWVo

  7. #6
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    Re: A unusual billodes anchor movement

    there is some similarity with the design patented by Charles E. Jacot
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    regards enrico
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  8. #7
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    Re: A unusual billodes anchor movement

    Thank you Enrico this might be a track. George was born as Favre Bulle and take by marrige the name of his wife. A name of an old watchmaker clan. He seems to be very proud of his "new" name you can admire in several forms on a lot of his watches. In a european country where women get political suffrage 1971 it surely wasn't usual to elect the family name of the wife. I guess there was a important reason. CHarles was a graed inventor (escapement/duplex) and active between 1817 - 1897. The Cha(rle)s E. Jacot watches definetly are on a significant higher level than Billodes. Therefore they wasn't direct competitor for the same market. Charles company still excist after his death until 1925. I can't find any relation to Georges or his wife. It might excist. May be as he start he get knowledge or machines or watchmaker from Charles or just start with optical simular watches like the famous namesake. I'll do some research during the next time.

    Thanks Silke
    That's what I think about today:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlUGeY7MWVo

  9. #8
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    Re: A unusual billodes anchor movement

    SilkeN
    Can you explain "rectangulär anchor "
    Do you mean 'lateral' at 90 Degrees?
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  10. #9
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    Re: A unusual billodes anchor movement

    Hi Adam,
    sorry for my late reply. I was visiting my mother in the internet free zone . You're I right I mean 'lateral' at 90 degrees. I found this term rectangulare in watch wicki and its sounds right. Unfortunately I'Ve in the moment some problems to load up pic's.

    Kind regards Silke
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    That's what I think about today:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlUGeY7MWVo

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