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  1. #21
    Member John Vargas's Avatar
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    Re: Vintage Minute Repeater Pocket Watch Help Needed…

    Would you drive your car for 100,000 miles without changing theoil?

    – No, unless it was designed not to have an oil change for a100,000 miles.

    I don't mind having it oiled. However, I don’t know anyone that will justoil it without taking it apart. It hasnever been apart and that is part of the uniqueness of this particular watch. Most watches as you know that are this old havebeen disassembled…and most of the time, you see the watchmaker’s slightestmistake. I don’t want to risk a slightestmistake.

    Since the back is open, I can see having it oiled. However, I don’t want it disassembled as I don’twant a mistake on the dial or hands, the hands have diamonds on them and I don’tknow what it took the watchmaker to balance them out…however, until this daythey are still perfect.

    Thus, the dilemma I am facing is everyone contacted so far wantsto do an overhaul… I don’t know ofanyone who is very reputable and very capable of oiling it as is, and leavingthe rest alone…
    / Tudor: “The Usuals"...Sub, S-D, Daytona's, GMT-II, GMT-IIC, Tudor Sub, Mini-Sub, Ω: NASA Issue Speedy Pro, Cosmic ‘51 R.I., IWC: 3717, Dudley: Masonic Pocket Watch, ℘℘:5107G, 3448, : 31 Day, 47040, BP: Leman Moon Phase Calendar, Milus: TIRM600

    "Americans are stupid to believe what they see and read in an IWC Brochure, the photos in the brochure are done to be the best-looking example of the product to make it more desirable, not what is actually available.” Benoit de Clerck, Ex-President, IWC N.A.

  2. #22
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: Vintage Minute Repeater Pocket Watch Help Needed…

    John
    I see you have a Dudley Masonic Pocket watch - that I believe ois pretty rare too.
    Would you care to share it with us?
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

  3. #23
    Member John Vargas's Avatar
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    Re: Vintage Minute Repeater Pocket Watch Help Needed…

    Quote Originally Posted by HOROLOGIST007 View Post
    John
    I see you have a Dudley Masonic Pocket watch - that I believe ois pretty rare too.
    Would you care to share it with us?
    Hello HOROLOGIST007,

    My pleasure, I just happen to have it handy right next me on my desk…LOL!

    Regards,

    John

    Point mouse cursorover photo thumbnails and left click to enlarge photos to full size



    [URL=http://s161.photobucket.com/user/smkngun27/media/Dudley%20Masonic%20Pocket%20Watch/DSC06075.jpg.html][IMG]http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t209/smkngun27/Dudley%20Masonic%20Pocket%20Watch/th_DSC06075.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
    Last edited by John Vargas; June 24th, 2013 at 17:30.
    / Tudor: “The Usuals"...Sub, S-D, Daytona's, GMT-II, GMT-IIC, Tudor Sub, Mini-Sub, Ω: NASA Issue Speedy Pro, Cosmic ‘51 R.I., IWC: 3717, Dudley: Masonic Pocket Watch, ℘℘:5107G, 3448, : 31 Day, 47040, BP: Leman Moon Phase Calendar, Milus: TIRM600

    "Americans are stupid to believe what they see and read in an IWC Brochure, the photos in the brochure are done to be the best-looking example of the product to make it more desirable, not what is actually available.” Benoit de Clerck, Ex-President, IWC N.A.

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  5. #24
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: Vintage Minute Repeater Pocket Watch Help Needed…

    Thanks John
    That is something else. Probably rarer than your repeater. It is a museum piece too.

    NAWCC, has one on permanent display.

    Thanks for sharing - you really have OUTSTANDING taste

    Regards
    adam
    John Vargas likes this.
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

  6. #25
    Member AbslomRob's Avatar
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    Re: Vintage Minute Repeater Pocket Watch Help Needed…

    Quote Originally Posted by John Vargas View Post
    Would you drive your car for 100,000 miles without changing theoil?

    – No, unless it was designed not to have an oil change for a100,000 miles.
    This wasn't. A classic (and probably apocryphal) conversation attributed to Breguet is that a king asked him to build him the perfect watch, and he agreed on the condition that he be supplied with the perfect oil, because otherwise it wouldn't matter how perfect the mechanism was.


    Quote Originally Posted by John Vargas View Post
    I don't mind having it oiled. However, I don’t know anyone that will justoil it without taking it apart.
    That's becuase a) you have to remove the dried remnants of the previous oiling efforts, which you can't do without taking the watch apart and b) you'd can only see (and thus access) less the half of the parts the need to be oiled. In particular, the cap jewel on the balance can only be removed by removing the balance, and that's the most important piece that needs to be oiled. No one in their right mind is going to agree to do half the job badly.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Vargas View Post
    It hasnever been apart and that is part of the uniqueness of this particular watch.
    What leads you to believe that it's never been disasembled? The pictures aren't high-res, but some of the screws look like they've been turned...

    Quote Originally Posted by John Vargas View Post
    I don’t want it disassembled as I don’twant a mistake on the dial or hands, the hands have diamonds on them and I don’tknow what it took the watchmaker to balance them out…however, until this daythey are still perfect.
    Your concern is certainly valid; even an expert can make mistakes, and finding someone with the requisite skills is going to be relatively expensive. But so is replacing the balance staff if you run it without service and the balance pivot gets ground off. Thus, my advices is that if you don't want to risk servicing it, then don't risk winding it.
    Eeeb and Mirius like this.
    My growing collection of "affordable" vintages: http://www.abslomrob.com

  7. #26
    Member John Vargas's Avatar
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    Re: Vintage Minute Repeater Pocket Watch Help Needed…

    Quote Originally Posted by HOROLOGIST007 View Post
    Thanks John
    That is something else. Probably rarer than your repeater. It is a museum piece too.

    NAWCC, has one on permanent display.

    Thanks for sharing - you really have OUTSTANDING taste

    Regards
    adam
    Hello Adam,

    Thank you for the compliment, it is greatly appreciated and means a lot.

    I took these photos of the Dudley just for you. I am the second owner of the watch, the first being a Bro. Mason, who purchased it from Wm. Dudley himself. Instead of coming with a Keystone Case, he special ordered the Masonic Cornerstone Case. I have everything that came with the watch as it was shipped to him. All of which I have stored in archival protection.

    It too, has never had an overhaul; it is as it came from the Dudley Factory. I do not wind it.

    Like you, I agree that it is rarer than the Minute Repeaters as amongst all those that have a Dudley Masonic PW, no one has the original bill of sale, correspondence and shipping box (that we know of). Therefore, it is a "complete" Dudley PW with everything as it was shipped from the factory. If it weren't as complete as it is, it wouldn't be as rare as the Minute Repeater.

    I hope you enjoy the photos!

    Regards,

    John

    Point mouse cursor over photothumbnails and left click to enlarge photos to full size

    Last edited by John Vargas; July 5th, 2013 at 16:00.
    / Tudor: “The Usuals"...Sub, S-D, Daytona's, GMT-II, GMT-IIC, Tudor Sub, Mini-Sub, Ω: NASA Issue Speedy Pro, Cosmic ‘51 R.I., IWC: 3717, Dudley: Masonic Pocket Watch, ℘℘:5107G, 3448, : 31 Day, 47040, BP: Leman Moon Phase Calendar, Milus: TIRM600

    "Americans are stupid to believe what they see and read in an IWC Brochure, the photos in the brochure are done to be the best-looking example of the product to make it more desirable, not what is actually available.” Benoit de Clerck, Ex-President, IWC N.A.

  8. #27
    Member John Vargas's Avatar
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    Re: Vintage Minute Repeater Pocket Watch Help Needed…

    I wish Breguet were still around…I would hire him to overhaul it…LOL! I know this watch was intended to be serviced and oiled.

    I can understand a watchmakers desire to do their best, but as you said we all know of experts who have made mistakes, I just don’t want that mistake to be on this watch, especially since it has never been serviced prior.

    I have yet to see the watch in person, it was inspected by a watchmaker who has verified that it has never been apart and was part of a longtime collector who passed away and all his watches ended up at auction, it is currently in the possession of a very dear friend who is enjoying it and he isn’t a watch collector.

    I have no problem paying the price for the best watchmaker to service it. Unfortunately, I really don’t know who is the best anymore, the one person that I could trust 100% has retired. I know he would be willing to do the overhaul, but when he retired, he sold everything and now just fishes all day.

    I will take your advice and not wind it, I am having a special handmade display case to showcase it and it will be like my 1967 YENKO Camaro. The ’67 sYc was unrestored when I purchased it many years ago, nothing except the oil was changed on it (and that was only done a handful of times), I stopped driving it back in 2003. Now she will forever sit as a piece of automotive art. I keep her as best maintained as I possibly can, but I won’t restore her as she has the original tires that she came with in 1967. The only thing not original from the factory when she was sold is the current oil that is in her and the original oil filter.
    Last edited by John Vargas; June 24th, 2013 at 20:41.
    / Tudor: “The Usuals"...Sub, S-D, Daytona's, GMT-II, GMT-IIC, Tudor Sub, Mini-Sub, Ω: NASA Issue Speedy Pro, Cosmic ‘51 R.I., IWC: 3717, Dudley: Masonic Pocket Watch, ℘℘:5107G, 3448, : 31 Day, 47040, BP: Leman Moon Phase Calendar, Milus: TIRM600

    "Americans are stupid to believe what they see and read in an IWC Brochure, the photos in the brochure are done to be the best-looking example of the product to make it more desirable, not what is actually available.” Benoit de Clerck, Ex-President, IWC N.A.

  9. #28
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: Vintage Minute Repeater Pocket Watch Help Needed…

    Quote Originally Posted by John Vargas View Post
    Hello Adam,

    Thank you for the compliment, it is greatly appreciated and means a lot.

    I took these photos of the Dudley just for you. I am the second owner of the watch, the first being a Bro. Mason, who purchased it from Wm. Dudley himself. Instead of coming with a Keystone Case, he special ordered the Masonic Cornerstone Case. I have everything that came with the watch as it was shipped to him. All of which I have stored in archival protection.

    It too, has never had an overhaul; it is as it came from the Dudley Factory. I do not wind it.

    Like you, I agree that it is rarer than the Minute Repeaters as amongst all those that have a Dudley Masonic PW, no one has the original bill of sale, correspondence and shipping box (that we know of).

    I hope you enjoy the photos!

    Regards,

    John

    Point mouse cursor over photothumbnails and left click to enlarge photos to full size

    It is FANTASTIC, is that also the original box.
    I knew little of Dudley, but was explained to me. I then visited his home/workshop - a pilgrimage to an OUTSTANDING US watchmaker that died (I believe) broke and a failure

    Fantastic piece
    John Vargas likes this.
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

  10. #29
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: Vintage Minute Repeater Pocket Watch Help Needed…

    Quote Originally Posted by John Vargas View Post
    I wish Breguet were still around…I would hire him to overhaul it…
    John
    If you want, I can give you a master watchmaker that can do as you want
    Jim Michaels was the director of the NAWCC School of Horology
    He is a MASTER watchmaker
    He was empowered by the Smithsonian to open George Washington watch.
    This is on CD, as he opened up, stripped the watch/and rebuilt it
    He works privately now.

    A
    Last edited by HOROLOGIST007; June 24th, 2013 at 22:49.
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

  11. #30
    Member John Vargas's Avatar
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    Re: Vintage Minute Repeater Pocket Watch Help Needed…

    Quote Originally Posted by HOROLOGIST007 View Post
    It is FANTASTIC, is that also the original box.
    I knew little of Dudley, but was explained to me. I then visited his home/workshop - a pilgrimage to an OUTSTANDING US watchmaker that died (I believe) broke and a failure

    Fantastic piece
    Hello Adam,

    Don't forget that I have the original shipping box, bill of sale as well as the correspondence between the two of them…LOL!

    In the grand game of life, Wm. W. Dudley didn't fail, he achieved his dream, but in his lifetime, it didn't come out the way he would have wanted, but he didn't fail.

    Failure is two things, one you never try and two, no one remembers you. Wm. W. Dudley succeeded at making his watches, although just for a brief time in his life. In death, he has transcended time as everyone who is a Mason and even those who are not want his watches.

    Regards,

    John

    / Tudor: “The Usuals"...Sub, S-D, Daytona's, GMT-II, GMT-IIC, Tudor Sub, Mini-Sub, Ω: NASA Issue Speedy Pro, Cosmic ‘51 R.I., IWC: 3717, Dudley: Masonic Pocket Watch, ℘℘:5107G, 3448, : 31 Day, 47040, BP: Leman Moon Phase Calendar, Milus: TIRM600

    "Americans are stupid to believe what they see and read in an IWC Brochure, the photos in the brochure are done to be the best-looking example of the product to make it more desirable, not what is actually available.” Benoit de Clerck, Ex-President, IWC N.A.

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