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  1. #51
    Member Audemars's Avatar
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    Re: Vintage Minute Repeater Pocket Watch Help Needed…

    At the great risk of seeming silly, I might be able to add a bit more to this thread

    The engraving of the serial number on the case echoes that of several illustrations in Hartmut Zantke’s book, see pp 233/290/364/379

    No reliance can be placed on the apparent chronology of Ls Audemars serial numbers. Why and when they assigned certain numbers remains an abiding mystery to a lot of folks more qualified than me. (Personally I believe they used an early form of lottery machine).

    As I say I am no kind of horologist, but the basic lay-out of the movement seems to me to echo the illustration on Zantke P227, which he dates to 1852. But here I am probably being really silly.

    I have one Georges Reymond working for Ls. Audemars in the Vallée de Joux. The only reference to him is dated 1848 but that doesn’t mean much as our records are not complete (see Workers & Operatives | Audemars ) and some of the names appear and disappear from year to year.

    It is clear from more recently discovered books that they made anything for anybody, fusée, cylinder, anchor, key or stem – whatever. Often without even assigning serial numbers at all.
    (Sometimes I wonder why they didn’t go broke much earlier!)

    I’m wondering if the "George Reymond" on this watch is an inscription rather than a maker’s mark……?
    Was he doing a bit of homework?

    Paul
    Audemars | Louis Audemars & Cie, Master Watchmakers, 1811 – 1885
    Emre likes this.

  2. #52
    Member jesse1's Avatar
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    Re: Vintage Minute Repeater Pocket Watch Help Needed…

    [QUOTEAt the great risk of seeming silly, I might be able to add a bit more to this thread
    ][/QUOTE]

    I don't think your being silly at all good research takes time . The google " instant experts" jump to conclusions with often erroneous results . Is the "Hartmut Zantke’s book available in England ? I've been looking to replace my missing copy ?

  3. #53
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    Re: Vintage Minute Repeater Pocket Watch Help Needed…

    Quote Originally Posted by Audemars View Post
    At the great risk of seeming silly, I might be able to add a bit more to this thread

    The engraving of the serial number on the case echoes that of several illustrations in Hartmut Zantke’s book, see pp 233/290/364/379

    No reliance can be placed on the apparent chronology of Ls Audemars serial numbers. Why and when they assigned certain numbers remains an abiding mystery to a lot of folks more qualified than me. (Personally I believe they used an early form of lottery machine).

    As I say I am no kind of horologist, but the basic lay-out of the movement seems to me to echo the illustration on Zantke P227, which he dates to 1852. But here I am probably being really silly.

    I have one Georges Reymond working for Ls. Audemars in the Vallée de Joux. The only reference to him is dated 1848 but that doesn’t mean much as our records are not complete (see Workers & Operatives | Audemars ) and some of the names appear and disappear from year to year.

    It is clear from more recently discovered books that they made anything for anybody, fusée, cylinder, anchor, key or stem – whatever. Often without even assigning serial numbers at all.
    (Sometimes I wonder why they didn’t go broke much earlier!)

    I’m wondering if the "George Reymond" on this watch is an inscription rather than a maker’s mark……?
    Was he doing a bit of homework?

    Paul
    Audemars | Louis Audemars & Cie, Master Watchmakers, 1811 – 1885


    Great website great post Paul Audemars!

    Having such a surname and being related with a watchmaking dynasty sounds superb. After reading through your website I understand that you don't continue the watchmaking heritage, is there anybody interested after you? I recall a non very active member from LeCoultre . So Golay, Meylan and Reymond are expected. WUS is getting interesting
    Last edited by Emre; July 27th, 2013 at 19:50.

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  5. #54
    Member Audemars's Avatar
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    Re: Vintage Minute Repeater Pocket Watch Help Needed…

    Jesse,
    Zantke's book is available in various places - Amazon, EBay &c &c. The price varies enormously. A while ago it was very cheap as there were a lot of remaindered copies around. (It is already 10 years old, and a lot of stuff has surfaced since then).
    It seems to me that it is getting a bit more expensive now.
    Of course you can always go directly to Zantke's own web site.....

    ( - What I want to know is, how do you lose a book weighing 3.5Kg which probably required the postman to use a fork-lift to deliver it????)

    (Mind you, at the risk of sounding too commercial and I sincerely hope I am not breaking the WUS rules, you could always buy mine as well...........!)

    No, Emre, I am not, and never was, a watchmaker. The last watchmaker in the direct line from Louis-Benjamin (as far as I know) is my late father's last survivng first cousin, now an old man, living in Le Brassus. He worked his entire life for AP and was one of their star operatives.

    My interest stems from the relatively recent discovery of an impressive amount of previously unknown archive material.
    I had a straight choice, to hand it to a museum somewhere, where it would only have been of use to people who already knew enough to ask for it, or to try to make it available to as wide an audience as possible.

    Yes we have to charge for access to some elements but it isn't a living and we aren't expensive - well I don't think so (but I would say that wouldn't I?)

    The book is something I had planned for some time for family consumption, as most of the (very small) English family don't know the story and for most of them Zantke's book is (a) too technical and (b) too heavy to actually sit down and read. I wanted something a non-horologist could read in bed without their eyes glazing over.

    Best regards and thank you for the compliments
    Paul
    Audemars | Louis Audemars & Cie, Master Watchmakers, 1811 – 1885
    Last edited by Audemars; July 28th, 2013 at 12:08.

  6. #55
    Member jesse1's Avatar
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    Re: Vintage Minute Repeater Pocket Watch Help Needed…

    What I want to know is, how do you lose a book weighing 3.5Kg which probably required the postman to use a fork-lift to deliver it????)
    Some friends are better at returning things than others .
    I haven't checked ebay ,but Amazon has not had a new copy listed in a while.

  7. #56
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: Vintage Minute Repeater Pocket Watch Help Needed…

    Quote Originally Posted by jesse1 View Post
    Some friends are better at returning things than others .
    I haven't checked ebay ,but Amazon has not had a new copy listed in a while.
    Strange. Ebay UK has 10 copie
    5 new 5 second hand but perfect
    Price as low as £50
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-lis...condition=used
    First one is actually IN USA
    [COLOR=#B12704 !important]£55.35[COLOR=#B12704 !important][/COLOR][COLOR=#888888 !important]+ £2.80 UK delivery[/COLOR]
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    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

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    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
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  8. #57
    Member jesse1's Avatar
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    Re: Vintage Minute Repeater Pocket Watch Help Needed…

    I may have to settle for used . I forget to check AmazonUK.

  9. #58
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: Vintage Minute Repeater Pocket Watch Help Needed…

    Quote Originally Posted by jesse1 View Post
    I may have to settle for used . I forget to check AmazonUK.
    No problem
    A
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

  10. #59
    Member Emre's Avatar
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    Re: Vintage Minute Repeater Pocket Watch Help Needed…

    Quote Originally Posted by Audemars View Post
    No, Emre, I am not, and never was, a watchmaker. The last watchmaker in the direct line from Louis-Benjamin (as far as I know) is my late father's last survivng first cousin, now an old man, living in Le Brassus. He worked his entire life for AP and was one of their star operatives.

    Best regards and thank you for the compliments
    Paul
    Audemars | Louis Audemars & Cie, Master Watchmakers, 1811 – 1885

    Louis Benjamin Audemars was the Louis Audemars who was the apprentice and son in law of Phillipe Samuel Meylan, right? I am collecting Meylan dynasty watches, couldn't go yet that back to Piguet & Meylan timepieces though, still stacked at 20th century Meylans:) and those PMs are pretty expensive... can't afford them.

    Woow, if that's the case the history associated with a member here, that's great. My average knowledge says, Meylan was working together with him but left his workshop and tools to Louis Audemars and moved to Geneve, established with Isaac Piguet the 'Maison de Piguet et Meylan' in 1811. The timepieces and automotons produced by them were signed ' PM '. After a fair an Australian entrepreneur bought most of their production but very unfortunately on the way to Australia the ship sank in Indian Ocean. Chinese Court was one of their customers from where these timepieces surface now mostly.
    Last edited by Emre; July 29th, 2013 at 00:00.

  11. #60
    Member Audemars's Avatar
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    Re: Vintage Minute Repeater Pocket Watch Help Needed…

    Yes that is pretty well accurate as far as is known.

    The Chinese market was important for the Ls Audemars company as it was - it seems - the fashion there to wear two identical watches at the same time. They sold their wares through Keiser in Hong Kong and we have some records of those sales in the recently discovered archive material.

    Paul
    Audemars | Louis Audemars & Cie, Master Watchmakers, 1811 – 1885

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