what is this pocket watch? verge? fusee? 18xx??
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Thread: what is this pocket watch? verge? fusee? 18xx??

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  1. #1
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    what is this pocket watch? verge? fusee? 18xx??

    Sorry I know nothing about these things,

    is this watch verge? is it fusee? how old is it?

    only markings are
    helmstine
    stockholm
    N12286
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    Last edited by Mirius; November 9th, 2018 at 23:09. Reason: Rule breach

  2. #2
    Zenith Forum Co-moderator
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    Re: what is this pocket watch? verge? fusee? 18xx??

    Welcome to Watchuseek. The watch is definitely a fusee (I can see the fusee chain when looking in from the side). As for whether it's also a verge, one would need more side pictures, probably from the other side, to see the escapement. The chances of it being a verge are rather high, though.

    Age? Probably first half of the 19th century.

    Hartmut Richter

  3. #3
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    Re: what is this pocket watch? verge? fusee? 18xx??

    Here is what I have learned. It's made by Helmstine Stockholm, a very rare and obscure swiss watchmaker. They were made watches during the latter half of the 18th century, so it's probably late 1700's. here is a picture of the other side, can you tell if it's verge?

    Thank You so much for your time.



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  5. #4
    Member Tick Talk's Avatar
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    Re: what is this pocket watch? verge? fusee? 18xx??

    Check this post out in response to a similar question a few years ago. The verge components (crown wheel, verge rod and pallets) are visible in photos 4 and 5:https://forums.watchuseek.com/f11/he...e-3434802.html.
    Tick Talk says, "A watch in the hand is worth two on the wrist"

  6. #5
    Member Border-Reiver's Avatar
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    Re: what is this pocket watch? verge? fusee? 18xx??

    Swedish watch, not Swiss! Stockholm, as it says on the dial and the movement, is the Swedish capital.

    Unless you are looking for watchmakers in the wrong place, Helmstine is not a 'very rare' and definitively not an 'obscure' watchmaker; there are still quite a few of his watches around.

    Made in the second half of the 18th century. Verge escapement, chain and fusee of course.

    Nice watch and rare, not because of a mysterious watchmaker, but considering the age combined with the good condition it seems to be in at first sight.

    Is it still running? Don't worry about +/- 5 minutes a day, that was chonometer-quality in these days and depends on a few other things, mainly related to the technique of the verge escapements, especially in different positions.

    Would be interesting to see the hallmarks inside the case, also underneath that red cover. Should be silver.

    The watch key shown is from that time. These keys also have a good market value by itself and are certainly a specific enhancement when originally belonging to the watch. The watch chain could also be interesting in this respect, if one could see more of it. Key and chain of course have nothing to do with the original questions about the watch, but in combination with watches of that era, they can eventually make a rare set, as in most cases especially the original key got lost or damaged.
    Last edited by Border-Reiver; November 10th, 2018 at 11:13.
    SunnyOrange and esdy_11192 like this.

  7. #6
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    Re: what is this pocket watch? verge? fusee? 18xx??

    it is obvious the english origin. it seems that the pins of the dia are missing

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    regards enrico

  8. #7
    Member Border-Reiver's Avatar
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    Re: what is this pocket watch? verge? fusee? 18xx??

    Quote Originally Posted by eri231 View Post
    it is obvious the english origin. it seems that the pins of the dia are missing

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    regards enrico
    Perhaps the case, that's why it would be good to see the hallmarks. Also, the (or some) parts from the watch could be of English origin, but Helmstine (active in the second half of the 18th) is as Swedish as pasta for Italia and Stockholm speaks for itself. Helmstine/Stockholm Swedish watches can be found anywhere, from eBay to leading auction houses.

    Kaplan in Sweden, the leading Nordic auction house, wouldn't sell it as a Swedish watch if it wouldn't be S-W-E-D-I-S-H

    https://www.kaplans.se/sv/sok?s=Helmstine&e=t.a-s

    Not to add further to the confusion: The 175 Kroners are the starting bid, watch defect, crystal missing.
    Attached Images Attached Images

    Last edited by Border-Reiver; November 10th, 2018 at 17:29.

  9. #8
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    Re: what is this pocket watch? verge? fusee? 18xx??

    to avoid other confusion: the watchmaker is definitely S-W-E-D-I-S-H but the ebauches of this movement is definitely of origin E-N-G-L-I-S-H
    regards enrico
    esdy_11192 likes this.

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