When is a Brequet NOT a Breguet and NOT a Fake?
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Thread: When is a Brequet NOT a Breguet and NOT a Fake?

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  1. #1
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    When is a Brequet NOT a Breguet and NOT a Fake?

    When is a Brequet NOT a Breguet BUT NOT a Fake either?

    Well trolling across eBay I cam across this:
    Breguet 9ct gold ladies wristwatch circa 1920
    I knew Breguet was dead by 1823, but his watches carried on so I was interested.
    Sellers Description:
    15 jewel manual wind Breguet ladies wristwatch
    Guilloche enamel dial
    Coin edge watch case both signatures of breguet.
    Movement in fine working order and keeps precise time with a slow/fast dial(which also works)
    There is small split in the gold case
    The back case carries an import mark for Glasgow 1923.
    A fine example of art deco wristwatches.Breguet is signed to the movement.
    The watch has a diameter of an inch.

    Pictures showed these:






    Thinking, indeed knowing this was never a 'Breguet' I wrote to the seller suggesting maybe it said 'BREVET' and not 'Breguet'

    Nope, she wrote back INSISTING it clearly said 'Breguet' - picture later and I have this:



    Now I DO see 'Breguet' - stand back in amazement at first - till I look closer and see 'HSPG'. What could that be? Of course abbreviation for 'hairspring'. A little more research and;

    VOILA! I have it. This watch has a Breguet over coiled hairspring invented by Breguet in 1795, and used in most watches past and present!

    CONCLUSION
    Not a Breguet watch, but marked Breguet and NOT a fake either.

    Cool.
    Regards
    Adam



    Last edited by HOROLOGIST007; May 25th, 2013 at 18:23.
    radger likes this.
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

  2. #2
    Member Tick Talk's Avatar
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    Re: When is a Brequet NOT a Breguet and NOT a Fake?

    Nice detective work Adam. I think there was an intention to mislead however. Otherwise, what value in even engraving that bit of nonsense on the movement? Similar to the pocket watches that litter fleabay, described as Breguet when of course the cuvette only states Spiral Breguet. Love those sellers who think that Spiral Breguet is the brand name...how can they be so ignorant yet have such flowery descriptions on the famous history of their bit of pot metal.
    Tick Talk says, "A watch in the hand is worth two on the wrist"

  3. #3
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: When is a Brequet NOT a Breguet and NOT a Fake?

    Thanks and agree
    I have very politely suggested also the the seller to clarify it. I do not think she was trying to deceive, just 'hoping'?
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

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  5. #4
    Member Tick Talk's Avatar
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    A more outrageous fake...

    Please forgive me for hijacking your thread, but it reminds me of a particularly outrageous fake on fleabay, pretending to be a rare and valuable Vacheron & Constantin Observatory chronometer. In fact, VC archives show the case and movement numbers don't match AND the wonderful people at Greenwich Maritime Museum indicate the piece did not receive a Kew rating. Seller's response to this info? Records are wrong, I'm right, go away and let me rip someone off. Very telling is that he refused my suggestion to contact VC and hear the facts from them directly Actually, more telling is the description that states the case is "silver and gold", except his "gold" is actually the cladding worn off the brass crown. And this gentleman is a vintage watch dealer!!
    Attached Images Attached Images





    Tick Talk says, "A watch in the hand is worth two on the wrist"

  6. #5
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    Re: A more outrageous fake...

    No apologies needed
    Thats a great story.
    Maybe we should change this thread to
    'Outrageous FleaBays'

    I actually like indeed love the movement though on that VC?

    Thanks again
    A
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

  7. #6
    Member pithy's Avatar
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    Re: When is a Brequet NOT a Breguet and NOT a Fake?

    Quote Originally Posted by HOROLOGIST007 View Post
    . . . . This watch has a Breguet over coiled hairspring invented by Breguet in 1795, and used in most watches past and present! . . . .
    You may wish to compare the ratio of overcoil hairsprings to flat flat hairsprings in the movements of modern watches and those of antiquity as well and then reevaluate your pronouncement.
    Courtesy of ULF.

  8. #7
    Member radger's Avatar
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    Re: A more outrageous fake...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tick Talk View Post
    Please forgive me for hijacking your thread, but it reminds me of a particularly outrageous fake on fleabay, pretending to be a rare and valuable Vacheron & Constantin Observatory chronometer. In fact, VC archives show the case and movement numbers don't match AND the wonderful people at Greenwich Maritime Museum indicate the piece did not receive a Kew rating. Seller's response to this info? Records are wrong, I'm right, go away and let me rip someone off. Very telling is that he refused my suggestion to contact VC and hear the facts from them directly Actually, more telling is the description that states the case is "silver and gold", except his "gold" is actually the cladding worn off the brass crown. And this gentleman is a vintage watch dealer!!
    Very few people would have known that this V&C is a scam piece tick talk, well spotted indeed.

    Of course, I remember that you own a genuine V&C observatory chronometer which pops up in this
    thread............

    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f11/obs...nt-536219.html

  9. #8
    Member Tick Talk's Avatar
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    Re: A more outrageous fake...

    Quote Originally Posted by radger View Post
    Of course, I remember that you own a genuine V&C observatory chronometer which pops up in this
    thread............

    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f11/obs...nt-536219.html
    OMG, that thread is two years old now but I still consider it one of the best reviews...a beautiful piece of work radger

    FWIW, that Batafolier V&C Observatory watch has moved on to a new home, replaced with another from 1927. Obtained 742 points as adjusted by Edmond Olivier and good enough for a 3rd Prize at Geneva. What tickles me, however, is that the movement sat on the shelves for 15 years until being cased-up as a Kriegsmarine navigation chronometer! The stories these watches can tell us!
    Attached Images Attached Images

    Tick Talk says, "A watch in the hand is worth two on the wrist"

  10. #9
    Member HOROLOGIST007's Avatar
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    Re: A more outrageous fake...

    Yes its an OUTSTANDING thread - I learnt a lot from it. Indeed reading it a third time.
    Thanks for the link
    Regards
    NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL. THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.

    "Failure is not an option" - Gene Kranz
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

  11. #10
    Member radger's Avatar
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    Re: A more outrageous fake...

    That is very generous praise indeed, thank you fellas.

    Tick Talk, yet another outstanding watch. Gotta love it when an observatory pocket chronometer has been
    used as an actual navigational tool, definately adds to the appeal.

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