Wristwatch ID Help... A. Schild 612 or something more?

Thread: Wristwatch ID Help... A. Schild 612 or something more?

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  1. #1
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    Wristwatch ID Help... A. Schild 612 or something more?

    The other day I was poking around at some old watches I'd gotten off ebay, and dug out one that had seemed fairly unique before but I had never really investigated. Looking at it some more odd features jumped out at me and I really became curious as to just what this watch was. I recalled from before that there were no ebauche marks, so I was hoping to ID the set lever jumper using a Bestfit catalogue but well... this failed as well for reasons that I'll get to. Eventually I measured the movement at about 22mm and just poured through the Ranfft database looking at 8.75''' (tenths of an inch?) until I found something that it resembled... What I found was the A. Schild 612 family which seems to have about the same bridge and plate arrangement. That being said... there are some interesting differences which seem like weird modifications to make so I was hoping someone might have some more information about this watch!

    Onto the pictures! I am not a cameraist so the photos are not great, though my camera does a great job balancing that out, it can't fix everything.

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    Tiny case, definitely an older style.

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    The movement. Resembles the A. Schild 612 family, but not quite...

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    Uncased. Perhaps the most unique thing is the deep blue jewels. It also has a bimetallic balance (I think? I don't know too much about these), an overcoil, and a regulating arm, which I thought was uncommon with overcoils. Bridges for the escape wheel and the fourth wheel are nice features, and the anglage and polished screwheads are very neat too.

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    Gear train. I accidentally put the third wheel in upside-down here, but luckily I caught that before reassembly.

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    Mainplate without the gear train. Nice perlage.

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    Dial side of the main plate. Again very similar to the 612, but with a small bridge over the setting components. Also a finish that I have not seen before.

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    Another view with better focus on the setting components. Perlage, anglage, and a set lever spring/yoke much fancier than the 612, but makes it unlikely I could reference Bestfit to ID it.

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    Poor focus, but a good look at the finish on the plate. I've never seen this style of finish before and don't know what it is called.

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    Dial and hands. I stupidly forgot to get a good look at the other side of the dial.

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    Quick, poor photo of the case. Reason I took it was the deep gouges around 8' that I couldn't figure out what the reason for was.

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    Anglage on the pallet fork.

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    Rounding/chamfering on the inside of the wheels.

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    Another difference from the 612... looking at the movement I noticed I could not see the winding pinion interacting with the crown wheel... Turns out the crown wheel is actually a true crown wheel.

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    Anglage on the bridge, as well as the blue jewels (only the bridge jewels were blue... the jewels in the mainplate were all red). Slightly different shape than the 612 bridge in that it has the Dufour-esque peak that goes between the crown wheel and ratchet wheel.

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    Markings on the back of the bridges. The escape and 4th wheel bridges also had "390" stamped on their undersides as well.

    So aside from just being a pretty unique watch, and with far better finish than anything else I own, can anyone provide any more information about this watch? Also, any idea where or what to look for in the way of a strap if I wanted to wear this (after I eventually service it)? Thanks!
    Last edited by Tighran; March 11th, 2017 at 17:28.

  2. #2
    Member Dan S's Avatar
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    Re: Wristwatch ID Help... A. Schild 612 or something more?

    I believe the units in the Ranfft archive refer to "lignes", not tenths of an inch. 22mm would be about 9.75 lignes.
    -- Dan (formerly known as @badbackdan)
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  3. #3
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    Re: Wristwatch ID Help... A. Schild 612 or something more?

    My first instinct was to convert to lignes, but it seems I messed up the conversion... Then figured if ' was feet and " inches then... ''' might mean tenths of an inch, and the numbers seemed to line up. Guess I'll pour over the database again looking at 9.75 as well.

    Well that was a much shorter list... Also bears a strong resemblance to the Universal 259 (especially the winding/setting mechanism), but modified so the fourth wheel has its own bridge... that or a weird (but fancy) frankenwatch? http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?11&ranfft&0&2uswk&Universal_259
    Last edited by Tighran; March 11th, 2017 at 17:50.

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  5. #4
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    Re: Wristwatch ID Help... A. Schild 612 or something more?

    I'd say its a Universal 259
    I'll post a pic of my flume catalog later on.
    The pic at Ranffts is slightly different

    Edit: here's the pic

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    Last edited by emka; March 11th, 2017 at 18:17.

  6. #5
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    Re: Wristwatch ID Help... A. Schild 612 or something more?

    That'd be much appreciated, thanks!

    Doing some more digging (and not finding terribly much about Universal so far) I found out the same movement was also used by Gruen, that being said this one had no Gruen markings and I wasn't sure if Gruen would make something to this level of finish. Apparently Gruen got movements from some company called Aegler (which I'd never heard of) so I will have to look into that more. https://forums.watchuseek.com/f11/gru...-a-691236.html This all seems quite interesting and I'd love to know more of the history of this thing!

    But for now I am off to the National Watch and Clock Museum (and maybe poke into their library a little bit)! Thanks for the help thus far!

  7. #6
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    Re: Wristwatch ID Help... A. Schild 612 or something more?

    BTW its not uncommon to find one calibre with several forms and layouts for the bridges.

  8. #7
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    Re: Wristwatch ID Help... A. Schild 612 or something more?

    There was one (with lousy pic and lousy feedback) on Ebay some time ago UNIVERSAL VINTAGE MOVEMENT CALIBRE 259 FOR PARTS | eBay

  9. #8
    Member AbslomRob's Avatar
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    Re: Wristwatch ID Help... A. Schild 612 or something more?

    Does the pallet fork have a screwed-in pinion? Many of the design elements remind of Gallet work
    My growing collection of "affordable" vintages: http://www.abslomrob.com

  10. #9
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    Re: Wristwatch ID Help... A. Schild 612 or something more?

    I would have to check again but I don't think so... How would one even screw in the pallet fork arbor without destroying the pivots anyway?

  11. #10
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    Re: Wristwatch ID Help... A. Schild 612 or something more?

    Like this: Name:  PalletScrew.JPG
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    My growing collection of "affordable" vintages: http://www.abslomrob.com

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