Auction Houses & Watch Prices
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Thread: Auction Houses & Watch Prices

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  1. #1
    Member De Wolfe's Avatar
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    Auction Houses & Watch Prices

    How many of you think auction houses are involved in creating:

    1) Hype around a watch/brand
    2) Increase price of a watch
    3) Increase brand recognition

    Or is it brands paying them to do so? Or watch market speculators are the ones in control?

    Are brands involved in this? Many speculate that some brands come to these auctions under name X and buy the watch to increase market recognition and to create a hype around their brands; and/or that some pieces are being released from privet collection of the brand itself to keep their name continuously hoping in the news.

    Market moves by consumers, and consumers behavior moves based on emotions; marketing comes from different channels, is auction houses one of them?

    In my case, I came across some watches either a model or a reference within a line, that I never heard off; I fall in love and when I go to find one to purchase, I get welcomed by "You are too late to the game, premiums are building up". This happened to me with my Speedy Alaska, that I never knew about till mid last year, but they where already selling at approx. $15-20,000.

    Its nice to have a strong resale value and/or appreciation for a watch you own; but on the other hand, it can ruin your purchasing experience on another watch you want (waiting list/premiums/exclusivity).
    In order I have obtained
    > Seiko Chronograph SNA013P The Great Blue l Chopard Mille Miglia GTXL Rosso Corsa l Tudor Heritage Chrono Blue Monte Carlo
    Seiko 5 SNXF01K1 Silver Fox l Seiko 5 - SNKP21J1 Middle East Edition l Longines Heritage 180th Anniversary Chrono
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    Grand Seiko SBGJ227 Peacock l G-Shock GMWB5000GD-9

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  2. #2
    Member dantan's Avatar
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    Re: Auction Houses & Watch Prices

    I have a feeling that some brands may have something to do with falsely increasing the perceived demand and hence value (pricing) of Watches at Auction Houses.
    De Wolfe likes this.
    Dan.
    A. Lange & Sohne 1815 Up/Down
    H. Moser & Cie Pioneer Centre Seconds
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    Cartier Santos WSSA0010
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  3. #3
    Member Watagump's Avatar
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    Re: Auction Houses & Watch Prices

    I think the prices on ebay some are asking are a flat out absurd joke. I look on ebay ever single day at watches I might possibly buy. Mostly Zenith EP's, but other brands also, its very common to see asking prices on used watches for more than some have posted brand new. I get it, trying to get as much as you can if you are a business. The market will determine the price, so a lot just don't sell, I have a couple in my watch list that go up and down around $500 and have been doing so for months. They are from someone who is well known and even sells on here, the watches are from Glashutte. I really wish more would just let people bid, but I also hope people realize that a price is just not a good price, the Portuguese sells for over $4000 on a regular basis, its not even an in house movement like an EP which you can get for less.
    De Wolfe likes this.
    Current collection. Ingersoll Apache, Hamilton Jazzmaster Auto Chrono, Invicta 0070 Pro Diver, Invicta Pro Diver 15503, Breitling Transocean Chronograph, Panerai Radiomir PAM00388

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  5. #4
    Moderator Public Forum John MS's Avatar
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    Re: Auction Houses & Watch Prices

    Quote Originally Posted by De Wolfe View Post
    How many of you think auction houses are involved in creating:

    1) Hype around a watch/brand
    2) Increase price of a watch
    3) Increase brand recognition

    Or is it brands paying them to do so? Or watch market speculators are the ones in control?

    Are brands involved in this? Many speculate that some brands come to these auctions under name X and buy the watch to increase market recognition and to create a hype around their brands; and/or that some pieces are being released from privet collection of the brand itself to keep their name continuously hoping in the news.

    Market moves by consumers, and consumers behavior moves based on emotions; marketing comes from different channels, is auction houses one of them?

    In my case, I came across some watches either a model or a reference within a line, that I never heard off; I fall in love and when I go to find one to purchase, I get welcomed by "You are too late to the game, premiums are building up". This happened to me with my Speedy Alaska, that I never knew about till mid last year, but they where already selling at approx. $15-20,000.

    Its nice to have a strong resale value and/or appreciation for a watch you own; but on the other hand, it can ruin your purchasing experience on another watch you want (waiting list/premiums/exclusivity).
    Certainly hype and advertising on the part of an auction house can create an image. A well done catalog and website combined with appropriate advertising can do a lot to attract bidders. It's in the auction house self interest and the interest of their clients to maximize the audience for and the price of a consigned watch. Ultimately it is watch buyers bidding against one another that determine the hammer price for a given watch. Depending on the watch the audience of bidders may include experienced collectors, first time buyers, watch dealers, museums, brokers bidding for clients, etc. And yes two or more buyers can catch auction fever and send the price soaring beyond the catalog estimate. I've seen it happen many times. Just because the price of a watch you are interested in moves beyond your budget that does not indicate a manufactured market or collusion. You waited too long before actively chasing the watch.
    Mouse_at_Large and De Wolfe like this.

  6. #5
    Member De Wolfe's Avatar
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    Re: Auction Houses & Watch Prices

    Quote Originally Posted by John MS View Post
    You waited too long before actively chasing the watch.
    But realistically, not every one can through money at X watch today, but maybe they can in a year or two.

    There are 3 watches I always had my eye on, and I was building up my savings to get them, but all of a sudden hype or demand hit high on that watch and shoot up the prices (not like they where cheap in the first place); thats good for the brand and current customers, but not as great for new buyers (as I said before, there is advantages and disadvantages).

    And personally, I don't settle for anything "similar", as it takes me time and research to start appreciating a watch; so I got to work harder :D

    Cash is king, and having it today gives you access to opportunities.
    In order I have obtained
    > Seiko Chronograph SNA013P The Great Blue l Chopard Mille Miglia GTXL Rosso Corsa l Tudor Heritage Chrono Blue Monte Carlo
    Seiko 5 SNXF01K1 Silver Fox l Seiko 5 - SNKP21J1 Middle East Edition l Longines Heritage 180th Anniversary Chrono
    Omega - Speedmaster Pro Project Alaska l G-Shock - G-9000MX-8 Mudman l Seiko Prospex SRPB51J1 Samurai
    Grand Seiko SBGJ227 Peacock l G-Shock GMWB5000GD-9

    My Reviews: Eulit Perlon Strap / Tudor Rubber Strap - Vanguard

  7. #6
    Member mkws's Avatar
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    Re: Auction Houses & Watch Prices

    The brands, the blogs and the auction houses are up to their necks in price-hiking.

    The auction houses and the blogs do the hype, and then there's a bidder on the manufacturer's payroll to either raise the bids over and over (and drop out of the bidding when it's past the previous record), or to bid until the very end, for the manufacturer to buy a watch for their museum.

    Also, it is sometimes the case, that the auction houses hire condottieri from the blogs, like Phillips did recently - they had an author from Hodinkee (the ultimate condotta "journalism" service) write an article, the link to which was between the listings on the lot list of Geneva Watch Auction: Seven. In said article, the author was hyping redialed watches, encouraging people to bid on a piece of questionable authenticity, thus having his fellow journalist condottieri and the auction house slap a seal of approval on redials. Not that H didn't already encourage people to buy redials - they did, and did so not so long ago.

    Patek, at some point, did an absolutely massive shill scheme of this kind. Obviously it did out, but it doesn't look like there were any consequences. Then there was Omega, bidding to obnoxious amounts for early Speedmasters, especially the 2915. Something like two years ago, they paid $110 000 for a pristine CK 2915, which was waaaaaaaay above what they were selling for at that time. Now they either got more careful, or they try not to do that, focusing on the blogs as their propaganda tube.
    Whether or not Rolex did the same, I don't know. If they ever did, they certainly managed to get covering their sixth done at least as well as they do their Oyster cases.

    At the end of the day, the end game is that of the manufacturers, to force the vintage market's clientele to buy contemporary pieces and reissues, because that's where the manufacturer's revenue comes from. They have no interest in keeping the vintage market alive. So, rather obviously, they must be having fun seeing the blogs and auction houses play the role of the guys selling the bullets and the bandages, as they're more like dogs drooling over the miserable scraps that commissions and recognition are (compared to the manufacturer's revenue).
    I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it.
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  8. #7
    Member georges zaslavsky's Avatar
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    Re: Auction Houses & Watch Prices

    Quote Originally Posted by mkws View Post
    The brands, the blogs and the auction houses are up to their necks in price-hiking.

    The auction houses and the blogs do the hype, and then there's a bidder on the manufacturer's payroll to either raise the bids over and over (and drop out of the bidding when it's past the previous record), or to bid until the very end, for the manufacturer to buy a watch for their museum.

    Also, it is sometimes the case, that the auction houses hire condottieri from the blogs, like Phillips did recently - they had an author from Hodinkee (the ultimate condotta "journalism" service) write an article, the link to which was between the listings on the lot list of Geneva Watch Auction: Seven. In said article, the author was hyping redialed watches, encouraging people to bid on a piece of questionable authenticity, thus having his fellow journalist condottieri and the auction house slap a seal of approval on redials. Not that H didn't already encourage people to buy redials - they did, and did so not so long ago.

    Patek, at some point, did an absolutely massive shill scheme of this kind. Obviously it did out, but it doesn't look like there were any consequences. Then there was Omega, bidding to obnoxious amounts for early Speedmasters, especially the 2915. Something like two years ago, they paid $110 000 for a pristine CK 2915, which was waaaaaaaay above what they were selling for at that time. Now they either got more careful, or they try not to do that, focusing on the blogs as their propaganda tube.
    Whether or not Rolex did the same, I don't know. If they ever did, they certainly managed to get covering their sixth done at least as well as they do their Oyster cases.

    At the end of the day, the end game is that of the manufacturers, to force the vintage market's clientele to buy contemporary pieces and reissues, because that's where the manufacturer's revenue comes from. They have no interest in keeping the vintage market alive. So, rather obviously, they must be having fun seeing the blogs and auction houses play the role of the guys selling the bullets and the bandages, as they're more like dogs drooling over the miserable scraps that commissions and recognition are (compared to the manufacturer's revenue).
    That statement is the absolute truth
    mkws likes this.
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  9. #8
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    Re: Auction Houses & Watch Prices

    So there is some gimmick lurkers in their marketing strategy of all auction house? Can someone explain to me how can that happen on sotheby and christie..

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