Bremont, in their own words, about movement allegations
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  1. #1
    Sponsor Timeless Luxury Watches's Avatar
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    Bremont, in their own words, about movement allegations

    Last week Bremont made headlines, both good and bad, with the release of their new Wright Flyer model. The bad was largely the product of allegations that their new in house movement was not, in fact, in house, and was actually a rebadged La Joux Perret movement. We've discussed Bremont's leadership's last response to the issue, which was in writing, and we asked you to keep an open mind until the facts were cleared up. Today, Bremont was interviewed by popular watch website Hodinkee regarding this issue and the result can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eg81-b-Jko

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    So now that we've heard from everyone involved, I think we can have a much more informed discussion of what happened, what went wrong and where we go from here.
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    Member Perseus's Avatar
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    Re: Bremont, in their own words, about movement allegations

    Nick English "To us it seems very in-house...but if you look at the technical definition of the term it probably isn't."

    I've never heard him speak before and I think he carried himself extremely well. He was likable, relatable, passionate and owned up to what many people feel was a mistake. I am surprised to see what is nearly a repeat of the Tag Heuer/ Seiko 1887 issue.

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    Re: Bremont, in their own words, about movement allegations

    This guy used to write for Bill Clinton?

    As well as he handles himself I have trust issues with people who become more honest after they get caught.

    But be that as it may, my response would be "Nick, to us the price seems very much in house.... but since it technically isn't will you be redefining the price?"
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    Re: Bremont, in their own words, about movement allegations

    Not that I was planning on it, but will surely not be buying a bremont anytime soon. This just isn't something a genuinely honest brand would try to get away with, whether they think they'll get caught or not.
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    Re: Bremont, in their own words, about movement allegations

    Nick's responses were decent. It takes guts to admit (sort of) that you screwed up on video. Far more satisfying, for me at least, were the site comments - all 100 plus (or so) of them and counting. Companies are just people and mistakes happen. Bremont is a growing company with a solid product and hopefully they wont underestimate how incredibly smart the watch buying public is next time someone has the brilliant idea to wordsmith better manufacturing prowess.

    Hodinkee fans are a tough crowd (as they should be), then again at only 300 (in steel) probably means very few if any one of them actually could buy the watch. And that's the real story here.

    Truth be told, Bremont introduced a rather unique limited edition watch, "fudged" (lied?) about the movement being in-house, got caught, and sold every last one of them in 48 hours. In-house or not, with the cheapest (steel) version at $26,000 that's pretty impressive for such a small company.

    That’s the bottom line really, they make and sell watches. Someday they might even make the movements too, but for now they really don’t. And they still sell watches.
    "Two Things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein

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    Member LesserBlackDog's Avatar
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    Re: Bremont, in their own words, about movement allegations

    This is a well-crafted response. But to me, it seems too "crafted."

    It stretches credulity to say that the English brothers (executives/owners in a major watch manufacturing company!) were simply "naive" with regard to the meaning of the term "in-house." In-house is a horological term-of-art whose application can have serious implications for a watchmaker's status. Not only is there a large degree of industry prestige associated with in-house production, but that prestige (as well as R&D and other ostensible overhead costs) can serve to justify drastically higher prices on an "in-house" watch than you would see in an identical watch with a generic movement. When you slap a label on a product that entitles you to demand a certain price premium, you should probably do your homework on what the label actually means first. If there was any ambiguity, Bremont should have erred on the side of caution. A phrase like "developed and partly manufactured by Bremont, and based on a La Joux Perret movement" or "developed exclusively for Bremont by La Joux Perret" (or whatever) would have been a more apt description.

    Even if the English brothers were personally naive as to how watch-consumers define the term "in-house," you'd think someone down the chain of command would have brought the issue to their attention before they started throwing the term about in promotional materials.

    It seems as though Bremont was either incredibly careless in their use of this particular terminology, or they were deliberately fudging the meaning of a well-known term-of-art in an attempt to reap the benefits, and didn't expect to get called out so hard for it.

    Doesn't make any difference to me since Bremont watches aren't my cup of tea, and the distinction between in-house and non-in-house movements is largely artificial IMO.
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    Re: Bremont, in their own words, about movement allegations

    Quote Originally Posted by LesserBlackDog View Post
    In-house is a horological term-of-art whose application can have serious implications for a watchmaker's status.
    I don't agree that In-house is a term of art, anymore. I don't think the meaning is particular enough and universal enough to rise to term of art. This is for me the crux of the issue. While I think Bremont's use was VERY liberal compared to the general expectation among WIS. The trouble is where exactly is the line for in-house vs not. This varies from person to person. In the end I actually think Bremont felt so attached to the movement that they felt it was in-house. For me I don't see Bremont any differently on a grand scale but they can't have this happen again and they have made making in-house harder since when they do come out with an in-house movement it will have to be more in-house than most to escape criticism. My opinion is more than partially from the fact that I see in-house as such a poorly defined and bastardized phrase.
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    Re: Bremont, in their own words, about movement allegations

    Added to the ever growing list of companies I will not support in any way. My opinion yours may vary. As another said - it's awfully easy to get open and direct once you've been caught. In-house is a pretty easy term, despite what some apologists want to say. Tag found out how easy it is to get caught, others ought to have learned from that event. They sold them out in <48 hours - what a shame. Sad that so many were apparently duped.
    Last edited by Docrwm; July 31st, 2014 at 00:28.
    -Robert
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    As long as you follow those simple rules - you shouldn't listen to anyone about your watches.


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    Member brrrdn's Avatar
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    Re: Bremont, in their own words, about movement allegations

    Quote Originally Posted by Donf View Post
    "Nick, to us the price seems very much in house.... but since it technically isn't will you be redefining the price?"
    Nah. The buyer is paying a high price for a piece of the Wright Flyer cloth.

  11. #10
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    Re: Bremont, in their own words, about movement allegations

    The founder of this watch company doesn't know what "In-House" means. LOL

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