Can you help me? Vintage Japanese Automatics
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  1. #1
    Member noimdaman's Avatar
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    Question Can you help me? Vintage Japanese Automatics

    Gentlemen & Ladies! I am hoping that someone might be able to tell me a bit about these Self Winding Watches with Japanese movements. I just purchased them from a gentleman who just retired, he sold premiums, those items with corporate logos on them. In addition to the pens and water bottles, he sold many high end premiums and was in 1992 Seiko's #1 Premium Dealer.
    He kept on hand samples of the items that he would be able to "brand". He had some Seiko Clocks that I purchased, as well as some Weems and Plath items; I also bought a Herman Miller Eames side chair for two bucks!
    Anyway he told me he probably has had these since the seventies and he thinks that they may have been mfg by Seiko, as a private label?
    I am currently wearing the silver one that I have pictured in my profile.
    The blue watch that is also pictured has at the very bottom of 6 o'clock printed: Japan 5026 0090T
    The watch face also has "Selfwinding 17 Jewels".

    Does anyone know anything about these watches? see the picture of all 10 watches below. I have spent about 5 hours searching the web and have had no luck... are they rare, are they junk, are they worth the $3.50 I paid for each of them? The stainless steel watch pictured I have been wearing for three days and is keeping good time.
    Thank you for reading!
    Jeff
    Last edited by stuffler,mike; March 30th, 2010 at 23:11.

  2. #2
    Moderator at Large stuffler,mike's Avatar
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    Re: Can you help me? Vintage Japanese Automatics

    Free bump. Post moved to Public which is the more suitable forum.
    Kind regards
    Mike


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  3. #3
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    Re: Can you help me? Vintage Japanese Automatics

    Pics!

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    Moderator Public Forum John MS's Avatar
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    Re: Can you help me? Vintage Japanese Automatics

    Quote Originally Posted by noimdaman View Post
    Gentlemen & Ladies! I am hoping that someone might be able to tell me a bit about these Self Winding Watches with Japanese movements. I just purchased them from a gentleman who just retired, he sold premiums, those items with corporate logos on them. In addition to the pens and water bottles, he sold many high end premiums and was in 1992 Seiko's #1 Premium Dealer.
    He kept on hand samples of the items that he would be able to "brand". He had some Seiko Clocks that I purchased, as well as some Weems and Plath items; I also bought a Herman Miller Eames side chair for two bucks!
    Anyway he told me he probably has had these since the seventies and he thinks that they may have been mfg by Seiko, as a private label?
    I am currently wearing the silver one that I have pictured in my profile.
    The blue watch that is also pictured has at the very bottom of 6 o'clock printed: Japan 5026 0090T
    The watch face also has "Selfwinding 17 Jewels".

    Does anyone know anything about these watches? see the picture of all 10 watches below. I have spent about 5 hours searching the web and have had no luck... are they rare, are they junk, are they worth the $3.50 I paid for each of them? The stainless steel watch pictured I have been wearing for three days and is keeping good time.
    Thank you for reading!
    Jeff
    I have not heard of the Atlantis Time brand before. They may have been made and labeled by Orient for the jeweler. Orient has made watches for large and small labels over the years and the watches appear to have been styled in the 1970's to 1980's. I've seen the Orient 5026 movement in watches of comparable quality labeled Urika on PMWF.

    They appear to be well made moderately priced watches. Their value lies mostly in whether the case design appeals to collectors. The pillow case watch will probably attract the greatest interest.

    http://www.pmwf.com/Watches/WATCHSAL...matic5026A.htm
    Last edited by John MS; April 1st, 2010 at 16:22.

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    Member noimdaman's Avatar
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    Re: Can you help me? Vintage Japanese Automatics



    John MS thank you so much for the information! I was finally able to get the watches to a watch maker and I have posted pics on the album with the back removed. They are hamazawa 5026A movements with Japan and Seventeen 17 Jewel stamped on the movement itself.
    Does this mean anything more to you regarding what they might be clones of?

    Thanks again for helping me out!
    Last edited by noimdaman; May 7th, 2010 at 02:13. Reason: added photo to post

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    Member noimdaman's Avatar
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    Re: Can you help me? Vintage Japanese Automatics

    Thanks for the bump!

  8. #7
    Member noimdaman's Avatar
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    Re: Can you help me? Vintage Japanese Automatics

    Here are the photo's











    Last edited by noimdaman; May 7th, 2010 at 02:12. Reason: Add Photo's

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    Re: Can you help me? Vintage Japanese Automatics

    Looks like a Seiko clone to me. Post the movement pics in Vintage. A couple of gurus frequent there - Roland should be able to identify this one.

  10. #9
    Member noimdaman's Avatar
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    Re: Can you help me? Vintage Japanese Automatics

    Outstanding! I was told by the gentleman I bought them from that he thought they were Seiko clones... I'm trying to find the "models" copied to give some vintage Seiko owner a way to freshen up the case and band! Thanks for the reply Mate!
    Last edited by noimdaman; May 7th, 2010 at 03:20. Reason: Misspelling

  11. #10
    Mod. Russian, China Mech. Chascomm's Avatar
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    Re: Can you help me? Vintage Japanese Automatics

    Quote Originally Posted by noimdaman View Post


    John MS thank you so much for the information! I was finally able to get the watches to a watch maker and I have posted pics on the album with the back removed. They are hamazawa 5026A movements with Japan and Seventeen 17 Jewel stamped on the movement itself.
    Does this mean anything more to you regarding what they might be clones of?

    Thanks again for helping me out!
    It's not a clone of anything.

    Hamazawa was a company that was eventually taken over by Seiko in the 1980s. Back when this watch was made, they were probably somewhat independent, however the winding mechanism on the 50xx movements would have required a license agreement with Seiko who held the patent at that time. The rest of the design however has absolutely nothing in common with Seiko design practices. It's more like Timex really. This movement first came out in the late 1960s, but what Hamazawa were doing from their inception in 1954 until then, I've no idea.

    The 7 jewel versions were used in Seiko's cheap labels School Time and Tomony. The 17 jewel ones were used by Orient and turn up in other Japanese brands like Urika. I've never seen a 'Seiko' branded watch with this type of movement however they may exist. The movements were sold widely overseas and may be found in US brands including Sears and Benrus, and the British brand Astral.

    While this movement is not a clone, it was sort of cloned by 'somebody' in Japan who supplied some parts ofr assembly by Premier Precision, Hong Kong, a subsidiary of Citizen Electronics. The Premier Precision 2604 does not use a Seiko-style winding mechanism, but everything else is laid out in the same way. The most obvious difference is that the movement is substantially plastic!





    Getting back to Hamazawa, I'd be delighted if somebody here could provide some history about this company. It seems to me that besides the famous 'good quality' companies (Seiko, Citizen, Orient, Ricoh) there was also a low-grade end of the industry involving companies who never get talked about on forums. I want to know more.
    Last edited by Chascomm; May 7th, 2010 at 09:49.
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    Chascomm
    Moderator, Russian Watches & Chinese Mechanical Watches Forums
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