Do We Need to Be So Harsh?
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Washington, DC

    Do We Need to Be So Harsh?

    The following is a post I almost posted in a different thread, but I think it makes a better thread of it's own because in the short time I've been in this forum, I've seen a lot of meanness. I suspect that there's some positive stuff going on too, but it doesn't seem as common as the snide and surly commentary does. So here goes:

    Quote Originally Posted by loiidol View Post
    +1 to faiz.

    $70k is really quite abit to be paying for a modified pedestrian movement.
    Though I am not quite into this kind of watch, I believe UN has one too. you could check it out here.
    Ulysse Nardin jaquemart erotic hour striker - YouTube
    Haute Time Plays With the Ulysse Nardin Hourstriker Erotica - Hautetime
    TY. I checked it out. I really was thinking I wanted to spend more like $40k than $70K. But whereas I might be able to find a way to flex my budget to purchase a watch listed at $70K, I know with certainty that ~$100K is just not in the cards at this time. I appreciate the suggestion all the same. It is an interesting piece. One thing I definitely prefer about the J&C is the incredibly beautiful dial and the absolute contrast between the public and private elements of the watch. The juxtaposition of the two characters reminds me of a Van Dyck that I wrote about in college that had a man and a woman nude and juxtaposed in a scene of the hunt.

    As for what you think about the movement inside, I don't care. I know the movement it contains was the one that essentially enabled the recovery of the chrono segment of the industry in the 80s/90s. If there is anything pedestrian about it, it's that it "will take a lickin' and keep on tickin'." It is a simple, rugged movement that lend itself well to adaptation -- be it for moon phase, date, day and date, and two or three diall configurations and functions. That flexibility and reliability is why it's used. If it's pedestrian, it's because it's the go to movement for the overwhelming majority of chronos available in the market today, regardless of whose name one finds on the the thing.

    Also, should I end up buying the Caligula, it will be for the novelty of the piece, not it's movement. I would say that's the case for most of everything I buy. Sometimes they do have movements of note, and that's I'm sure that's comforting to the prats who deign to pass judgment on my purchases. But all the time, the watches I buy end up in my collection because I absolutely loved them. Nobody can put a price on how good I feel wearing the watch. Moreover, these are novelty pieces. I don't know anyone who buys novelty pieces for the movement, though I know plenty who may see an in-house super snazzy movement in one as a bonus if they should buy the piece for the reason the piece was created.

    Bit of a Rant:
    Would anyone here like the Caligula better at $45K? I know I would and do. But then I like it already at $70K too. I like the Blancpains at $160K for that seems like a good starting price for them, but I don't have that much available to spend, so it's a moot point whether I like it or not. I appreciate that someone suggested it because (1) I had no idea it existed and (2) I can see why someone would see it as reasonable to suggest a $160K piece to another who is considering spending $70K. I would do the same thing if the amounts and watches involved were $70 and $160. But the fact remains that I, and hopefully other folks, must first feel the pathos.

    Mostly, in collecting -- be it watches, cars, cats, coffee cups or cuckoo clocks, etc. -- the price of a thing is mostly irrelevant in the decision to buy one or the other item of one's desire. The only time the price matters is when one is committed to buying that thing. Ever soul I know who collects something addresses the price after they are committed to the thing, not before. Once I'm at the point of dealing with the pricing, I start to feel out the various sellers, and if seller A doesn't show a willingness to work with me on the price, I'll find a seller who will. There is always somebody who wants your business more than they want to sell the thing at full price. It's really that simple. We are talking, after all, about production watches, not paintings or sculptures, that have one and only one source. Unlike an artist, a watch retailer has inventory carrying costs that grow every day and don't got away until a buyer pays.

    At any price level, folks here will babble on and on about what they would or wouldn't spend for this or that. WUS-ers are very quick to share that they don't think this or that is a good use of money. I get that for any individual such and such may not be a good use of their money. But I find it hard to believe there are really as many saintly altruists on WUS as all the concern over the money someone else plans to spend. Occasionally, I'll suggest to someone a lower priced article or a different similarly priced article. I'll even go as far as to offer why I cannot be passionate about the same item they seem to fancy. When I do so, the reason has to do with the design of the piece, not it's price. (Here is a recent example: They've already made up their mind that they are okay with the price. Who am I to tell them they are wrong? I also give pretty concrete reasons that don't disparage them, the watch in question or their taste.

    I'm sorry, but I just don't get why folks here, folks who say they are collectors, most often offer comments much like those a homemaker who is sore that tomatoes cost more at Whole Foods than at Food Lion. I at least understand the tomato complaint and the the disdainful attitude toward one grocer in favor or another. I too can't get very passionate about tomatoes, and I would shop at Food Lion as a result. The guy who cooks for me however, is very passionate about all sorts of things edible, including tomatoes. That's why he buys the produce and the meats and the fish, etc. and I don't. A chef's passion is why we love the food they offer us in restaurants.

    Does anyone actually give a damn what I or any other individual pays for a watch? I know the answer to that is, "No." If you've ever made a post on a forum about something only to find folks just want to tell you what a terrible choice yours is, I ask you, did you really want to hear that from them? Did you really need to be insulted -- obliquely or directly -- by the pontificating pedants who had no forensically reasoning they were willing to articulate behind their assertion that your "reasoning" was flawed? Even if some had some sort of reasoning, not one of them showed the integrity to even acknowledge the fact that they were rude, much less say what grounds they had for being so. So if one doesn't really care, why essentially tell another person that what they are doing is stupid, particularly when the other person didn't ask if anyone felt their choice be stupid?

    We are all here because to one extent or another, we like something about watches. Enough of the general public, in some cases even our non WIS friends, already think we are nuts for spending the sums we do on them, and take liberal license to tell us so. Do we really need to use the forum as our license to be nasty to each other?

    Lastly, I will bet that someone will read this and think -- hopefully just think, not write -- that if I don't like it, I don't have to participate. To them I would say that telling me that is but one more useless comment they are making for indeed, I already know that. I am writing this to be an agent of change for the better. I don't know if it will change, but I know that if I don't do something to try to effect some small improvement, it won't change. Since the most one can do on a forum is write, I'm writing. But believe me, I also know the Serenity prayer
    kfalk and Chronopolis like this.
    __________________________________________________ _____________________________

    Good judgment comes from experience, and experience - well, that comes from poor judgment.
    ― A.A. Milne

  2. #2
    Member pithy's Avatar
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    Aug 2010

    Re: Do We Need to Be So Harsh?

    insert <munching popcorn emoticon> here
    MZhammer and ShaggyDog like this.
    Courtesy of ULF.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    KL, Malaysia

    Re: Do We Need to Be So Harsh?

    'Fear of missing out' perhaps on getting a good deal and not being a sucker?
    well put :)

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  5. #4
    Member Doboji's Avatar
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    Dec 2011
    Washington DC

    Re: Do We Need to Be So Harsh?

    I find this post very confusing, probably because I haven't read the original thread. But at first glance, I think you're taking this wrong... people have a tendency to think as if it was their money being spent and speak to their own reservations about doing so. I don't think that constitutes being nasty at all... I think thats just honesty. One has to have the confidence of mind to be able to see through everyone elses opinion and decide for themselves what they'd like to buy.

    I just did this myself, purchasing a watch that many here felt was a poor choice. At the end of the day I appreciate all the opinions but already possess the only one that matters... my own. I suggest you do the same.

    Good luck in your decision making process.

    RGM 801A - Montblanc Twinfly Flyback Chronograph -
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  6. #5
    Member Loco's Avatar
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    Mar 2013
    Regina, Saskatchewan Canada

    Re: Do We Need to Be So Harsh?

    I'm with you on your rant Tony20009, I don't care if anybody likes or dislike what I have bought. That is what makes us individuals, instead of everyone becoming sheeple.

    My 2 cents.


  7. #6
    Member Robotaz's Avatar
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    Jan 2012
    Lexington, KY

    Re: Do We Need to Be So Harsh?

    You must have a lot of time on your hands.

    I wouldn't put so much thought into it. This place is about watches and watches are as much about opinion as they are facts.
    watchma, pithy and Jeep99dad like this.

    1. My posts are not shilling other people's stuff.
    2. I own everything that I post and paid for it with my own money.
    3. My opinions are not influenced by any form of compensation.

  8. #7
    RDK is offline
    Member RDK's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    The Hague, Netherlands

    Re: Do We Need to Be So Harsh?

    "Do we really need to use the forum as our license to be nasty to each other?"

    Uhm... No. But.. since this is a forum and people ask other people for opinions, they get opinions.

    And yes, this forum is just like real life. You meet a lot of nice & friendly people, and once in a while you meet
    someone not so nice & friendly. Sh*t happens.

    Enjoy your watches, that's why you bought them in the first place

    Rolex Explorer 214270
    Omega Seamaster Planet Ocean 2201.50.00

  9. #8
    Join Date
    May 2012

    Re: Do We Need to Be So Harsh?


    Quote Originally Posted by Robotaz View Post
    You must have a lot of time on your hands.

    I wouldn't put so much thought into it. This place is about watches and watches are as much about opinion as they are facts.

  10. #9
    Member Mr. Panerai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    San Diego, CA

    Re: Do We Need to Be So Harsh?

    I don't mean to be 'harsh' but I think you've got it all wrong OP. I don't think anyone is ever saying "you should not spend (x dollars) on a watch" it's more "you should not spend (x dollars) on that particular watch (in poster's opinion), which is really what people should expect a bit of when they make a thread asking for advice from their fellow forum members...

    Would you rather we all just hold our tongues in the future instead of adding our voices to a conversation?

    If someone is about to pay $10K for a watch with a 2428 inside of it, I'm gonna say how that's a bad use of their money when there's so many great in house movements on the market in that price range. It's my opinion, and this forum is all about opinions. Am I trying to make a personal attack and demean the OP in this figurative thread? No!!! I'm trying to open their eyes to other options, and help them maybe find a better watch for their money. I really think that's how forums should work! It wouldn't be much fun on here if everyone just agreed with everyone about everything for the sake of not being hostile...
    Jeep99dad and Shane94116 like this.

  11. #10
    Member AvantGardeTime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Re: Do We Need to Be So Harsh?

    Buy what you like and be happy. Live and let live.

    Internet forums attract all kinds of characters and you'll meet nice, helpful folks and not so nice ones in the process. I learned a long time ago not to allow stranger's opinions to dictate my purchases and how I spend my hard earned money.

    Opinions are like bottoms.... Everyone has one.

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