Looking for a Dual-Time Zone/GMT/UTC Watch (Criteria in Message)

Thread: Looking for a Dual-Time Zone/GMT/UTC Watch (Criteria in Message)

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  1. #1
    Member iim7v7im7's Avatar
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    Looking for a Dual-Time Zone/GMT/UTC Watch (Criteria in Message)

    Hi,

    I am currently looking for suggestions for a dual/time zone - GMT/UTC type watch to ad to my collection. An Omega SMP-GMT of course is an option, but I tend to like less ubiquictous watches (but if they are really heads and tails better than competition, I can be convinced). I know about Rolex and Omega GMT quick set function and I don't travel enough for that to really matter. I simply travel a few times a year and deal with business partners in other parts of the World regularly and it would be nice to know the time.

    I tend to like simple, clean designs, so I have not thought about a chronometer, but I have not ruled them out either. Since I currently have a dive watch (Ball) and a dress watch (Stowa), I was thinking of something in between in style (aviator?).



    I would like your suggestions based on the following criteria.
    • Budget: < $3,500 (a little more or a lot less...
    • Style: More sporty than dressy, but OK as everyday or dress (I have a diver & a dress on order)
    • Case Size: 38 - 44 mm dia.
    • Material: Stainless or Titanium
    • Face: White, Black or Blue OK, no roman numerals, ticks or alphanumerics (I prefer clean reading faces). Lume is a plus
    • Movement: Automatic, Highest grade ETA 2893-2 (or proprietary, but I sense that they are too much $) or V 7750 (if UTC chrono model) I can get (COSC? or internal std.)
    • Crystal: Sapphire, preferrably with no anti-reflective coating on outside of crystal (afraid of scratching, I need to be convinced of toughness)
    • Case Back: Stainless/Ti or Sapphire View window
    • Water Resistance: > 30 m but > 100 + m is a plus (already have a 300 m diver)
    • Strap: Bracelet preferred (quality here is important to me), but a leather strap is OK
    • Distribution & Service: Available from AD is USA and servicable in USA (e.g. some Sinn technology
    I am aware of some Swiss and German manufacturers who make watches in this price category, and, but I really have no undertstanding of how much each manufacturer modifies & adjust/regulates their movements. Among the players who is currently producing the best quality (compared to say Omega, for example)? Additionally, might I be better off in the used market?

    Thanks,

    Bob

    Companies I am aware of to consider based on price:

    Swiss:

    Baume & Mercier
    Ball
    Breitling
    Doxa
    Fortis
    Glycene
    Longines
    Montblanc
    Omega
    Oris
    Porche Design
    Tagheuer
    Zeno

    (Too much $$$: Blancpain, Chopard, IWC, Jaeger-LeCoultre, Rolex, Ulyses Nardin and Zenith)

    German:

    Archimede
    Arctos
    Damasko
    Limes
    Muehle Glashutte
    Niverel
    Sinn
    Temption
    (Too much $$$: A. Lange & Soehne, Glashutte Original, Union Glashutte, Wempe)
    Last edited by iim7v7im7; January 6th, 2009 at 21:36. Reason: Added List of Companies I am Aware Off
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  2. #2
    stuffler,mike
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    Re: Looking for a Dual-Time Zone/GMT/UTC Watch (Criteria in Message)

    SINN 756 S UTC, Sinn 756 UTC, Sinn 356 UTC Flieger

    IWC Flieger UTC

  3. #3
    Member iim7v7im7's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for a Dual-Time Zone/GMT/UTC Watch (Criteria in Message)

    Mike,

    Thanks for the suggestions.

    I have read lots about Sinn's impact resistant case material technology, use of inert gas, moisture sensitive chemicals etc., but nothing about the grade of ETA movements they use, alterations, adjustmensts that they make to them. What can you tell me about Sinn in this regard?

    Much Appreciated,

    Bob

    Quote Originally Posted by stuffler,mike View Post
    SINN 756 S UTC, Sinn 756 UTC, Sinn 356 UTC Flieger

    IWC Flieger UTC
    __________________________________________________ __________________

    AUDEMARS PIGUET | BLANCPAIN | DAMASKO | GRAND SEIKO | ROLEX

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  5. #4
    stuffler,mike
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    Re: Looking for a Dual-Time Zone/GMT/UTC Watch (Criteria in Message)

    From the Sinn Forum I learned that most of the ETA movement are "top". You should know that the ETA 7750 grades start at elaboré, in contrary to an ETA 2824-2 for example there is no standard. Re regulation/adjustment: You will not hear or read complaints on the Sinn fora.

  6. #5
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    Re: Looking for a Dual-Time Zone/GMT/UTC Watch (Criteria in Message)

    My favorite GMT in my collection is the Breitling shown below - the Antares World Timer...its a discontinued model, but really a wonderful and beautiful time piece. I picked mine up second hand in excellent condition a much less than your limit.
    Attached Images Attached Images


  7. #6
    Member iim7v7im7's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for a Dual-Time Zone/GMT/UTC Watch (Criteria in Message)

    Mike,

    I will look around more in that forum, thanks. I did look at the ETA website at the manufacturing PDFs for both the 2893-2 and the 7750 series and saw that they are available in two different quality levels: Elabore and Top/Cronometre. Honestly, I don't no the performance differences between the two manufacturing grades. Here is what I saw as differences (forgetting COSC cert. stuff):


    7750
    • barrel Spring
    • longer power reserve (48 vs. 46 hrs.)
    • balance wheel
    • hair spring
    • adjustment specs.
    • engraved barrel on edge
    2893-2
    • balance wheel gilting
    • hairspring
    • timing
    I am not familiar enough with movements to know how much this matters. The Sinn website says that the 356 UTC uses a certified COSC movement but the 756 UTC does not state any quality information. Maybe by looking at chrono power reserve specs, I can see what grade of movement?



    Bob


    Quote Originally Posted by stuffler,mike View Post
    From the Sinn Forum I learned that most of the ETA movement are "top". You should know that the ETA 7750 grades start at elaboré, in contrary to an ETA 2824-2 for example there is no standard. Re regulation/adjustment: You will not hear or read complaints on the Sinn fora.
    __________________________________________________ __________________

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  8. #7
    Member iim7v7im7's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for a Dual-Time Zone/GMT/UTC Watch (Criteria in Message)

    Hi,

    I have attached links to 8 non-chronograph, GMT watches (5 Swiss, 3 German) that have some UTC/GMT type functions. I wanted to look at 2893-2 watches before chronometers because I really do not need a stopwatch and prefer simpler faces if possible.

    I would appreciate any recommendations and rationales. Keep in mind, I already own a Dive Watch (Ball EMII Diver COSC) and have a dress watch on order (Stowa Antea 365) so this would be an addition to those.

    Thanks,

    Bob

    http://www2.fortis-watches.com/en/collection/index.html
    Fortis Spacematic GMT
    http://www.glycine-watch.ch/e/collection/detail.e.jsp?ID_Group=100000&ID_Display=10002D#
    Glycene Airman 18
    http://www.montblanc.com/products/gmt_automatic_gmt_automatic.36065.php
    Montblanc Timewalker GMT
    http://www.omega.ch/index.php?id=288&details=1&ref=22345000&no_cache=1
    Omega Seamaster 300 M GMT
    http://www.sinn.de/onlineshopPRO/TEMPLATE/index-ka.php?id=857.010
    Sinn 857 UTC
    http://www.tagheuer.com/the-collection/index.lbl?lang=en
    Tagheuer Grand Carrera Calibre 8 RS GMT
    http://www.temption-watches.de/e/english.htm
    Temption CM-03
    http://tutima.com/en/product_info.php?products_id=41
    Tutima FX Automatic UTC
    __________________________________________________ __________________

    AUDEMARS PIGUET | BLANCPAIN | DAMASKO | GRAND SEIKO | ROLEX

  9. #8
    stuffler,mike
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    Re: Looking for a Dual-Time Zone/GMT/UTC Watch (Criteria in Message)

    Quote Originally Posted by iim7v7im7 View Post
    Mike,

    Honestly, I don't no the performance differences between the two manufacturing grades.
    Here you will get an idea of what we are talking about. Details apply for ETA 2824-2.

    Standard and Elaboré:
    Mainspring - Nivaflex NO
    Shock protection - Etachocs
    Pallet stones - Polyrubies, Epilame-coated
    Balance - Nickel gilt
    Balance staff - Epilame coated
    Collet - Nivatronic
    Hairspring - Nivarox 2
    Hairspring heat treatment - Etastable

    Top and Chronometre:
    Mainspring - NivaflexNM
    Shock protection - Incabloc
    Pallet stones - Red rubies, Epilame-coated
    Balance - Glucydur gilt
    Balance staff - Epilame coated
    Collet - Nivatronic
    Hairspring - Anachron
    Hairspring heat treatment - Etastable

    The performance differences are the big differences between the various grades: ("The limit values are subject to interpretation: 95% of the pieces delivered in a lot must be within the specified limits.")

    Standard:
    2 positions (CH, 6H)
    daily rate: +/-12 sec/day
    Maximum positional variation: 30 sec
    Isochronism (between 0 and 24 hours): +/- 20 sec

    Elaboré:
    3 positions (CH, 6H, 9H)
    daily rate: +/-7 sec/day
    Maximum positional variation: 20 sec
    Isochronism (between 0 and 24 hours): +/- 15 sec

    Top:
    5 positions (CH, FH, 6H, 9H, 3H)
    daily rate: +/-4 sec/day
    Maximum positional variation: 15 sec
    Isochronism (between 0 and 24 hours): +/- 10 sec

    Chronometre:
    As per COSC specifications, which as far as most owners will notice, isn't much different from Top grade.
    For COSC see: www.cosc.ch

    The Sinn website says that the 356 UTC uses a certified COSC movement but the 756 UTC does not state any quality information.
    The 756 UTC is powered by an ETA/Valjoux 7750. The 7750 comes in "top" as stated before.

    Maybe by looking at chrono power reserve specs, I can see what grade of movement?
    NO

  10. #9
    Member jporos's Avatar
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    Re: Looking for a Dual-Time Zone/GMT/UTC Watch (Criteria in Message)



    What about this? Tutima FX Auto UTC. http://tutima.com/en/product_info.ph...26a2a6e40320e8
    I am pretty sure that this does not meet your criteria for 'top' grade movement, but it has three timezones with this bezel (or you can get a smooth bezel) and it sure is pretty! I had this watch timed by Tutima with an overall deviation of +3.8 seconds. Well within your budget. Good luck

  11. #10
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    Re: Looking for a Dual-Time Zone/GMT/UTC Watch (Criteria in Message)

    One more for your consideration, the Sinn 6060 Frankfurt Three Time Zone

    Comes in a nice box with both SS bracelet and Leather Strap.....










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