Movement question

Thread: Movement question

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  1. #1
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    Movement question

    I've found out that the ETA 2824 is a very common movement and that it is supposed to be very reliable. I've also looked att the ETA 7750 (Valjoux). How much better is the 7750 than the 2824? Whats the real difference?

  2. #2
    Member Daddel Virks's Avatar
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    Re: Movement question

    The eta valjoux 7750 is a chronograph, wich is more complicated, and has a stopwatch function.
    It's the most widely used chronograph movement, and used by lots of brands, from Breitling to Vixa.
    It is considered to be very reliable.
    The eta 2824 is a 3 hand movement with a date function, no chronograph, less parts, and simpler in design.
    Just as widely used as the 7750, and used by lots and lots of brands.
    So really, it depends on the fact if you want a chrono or a 3 hand watch.

    Good luck,

    Daddel.
    Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!

  3. #3
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    Re: Movement question

    Quote Originally Posted by Daddel Virks
    The eta valjoux 7750 is a chronograph, wich is more complicated, and has a stopwatch function.
    It's the most widely used chronograph movement, and used by lots of brands, from Breitling to Vixa.
    It is considered to be very reliable.
    The eta 2824 is a 3 hand movement with a date function, no chronograph, less parts, and simpler in design.
    Just as widely used as the 7750, and used by lots and lots of brands.
    So really, it depends on the fact if you want a chrono or a 3 hand watch.

    Good luck,

    Daddel.
    Thanks for the quick answer. I though the 2824 also was produced with a chronograph. But i guess I was wrong there.

    Are there any other good automatic chronograph movements out there which I should know of? Or is the 7750 the most valuable?

    I'm thinking of changing the movement in a watch which has a quartz movement if I find an automatic that fits.

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  5. #4
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    Re: Movement question

    I agree with Daddel Virks that the most significant difference ist the fact that one is a chronograph, the other a "three hand automatic watch with date function". There are some other, more subtle differences as well, though. The Valjoux 7750 only winds the automatic system in one direction whereas the ETA 2824 is bidirectional winding. This makes the 7750 a little more robust but will increase the time needed to wind it up fully. There is a great debate going on in the watch world, as to whether uni- or bidirectional winding is better - some argue that on the weinder, the uni-directionals are worse but they perform equally well or better on the wrist since the watch is subjected to slighter movements and most bi-directionals have to overcome friction in the reversing system first, but I will leave the final decision in that debate to the experts. The other thing I could mention is that the Valjoux was designed with robustness in mind - a simple tractor! - just as was the ETA 2824, but in the more complicated 7750, this is at the expense of service-friendliness. There is one spring in the chronograph mechanism in particular which is an absolute pig to reinstall during assembly. This could make the service bill for a Valjoux a little higher than that for another lever chronograph of comparative complexity (e.g. ETA 2894 or some of the Lemania movements).

    Hartmut Richter

  6. #5
    Member Daddel Virks's Avatar
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    Re: Movement question

    You can get the 2824 wih a chronographmodule on top, it than becomes a chrono, real chrono freaks don't like this construction, and I would also prefer the 7750 over that concept.
    Depending on your budget the 7750 is the only affordable chrono movement, or you can get some other modular construction.
    Replacing a quartz movement????
    Isn't it cheaper to buy a good 2824 watch?, lots of tips on this forum about that, lots to choose from.

    Cheers,

    Daddel.
    Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!

  7. #6
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    Re: Movement question

    Quote Originally Posted by Oggenils
    Thanks for the quick answer. I though the 2824 also was produced with a chronograph. But i guess I was wrong there.

    Are there any other good automatic chronograph movements out there which I should know of? Or is the 7750 the most valuable?

    I'm thinking of changing the movement in a watch which has a quartz movement if I find an automatic that fits.
    Just as I post my other reply, this appears!! Oh well, luck of the draw, I suppose!

    The ETA 2824 is only very rarely used as a base movement for chronographs. Far more commonly used is the ETA 2892, which has even been made into a chronograph by ETA themselves (ETA 2894). The reason is in the winding system: the main difference between the ETA 2824 and the ETA 2892 is that the latter has a far greater central ball bearing on the rotor and therefore also a greater winding wheel (on the underside). This gives more wind-up per turn of the rotor but makes it more difficult to turn the rotor one turn. No problem if the mainspring is fully unwound (less friction in the system) but the ETA 2892 has greater problems getting 100% wound up. Since the extra functions of complications need greater mainspring power, you don't want to risk getting down to zero power and accept the fact that you are unlikely to get to 100% - and therefore use the ETA 2892.

    If you want to swap a quartz chrono for a mechanical movement in the same case, you may well have dimensional problems. The ETA Valjoux 7750 is 7.9mm high - thick even for a chronograph movement. The ETA 2894 is somewhat thinner (about 5.5mm) but even that may exceed your base quartz movement. Also, the totalizers have to be in the same place - if your quartz one has a typical 2:00-6:00-10:00 arrangement, you can forget it! Most mechanicals have a 3:00-6:00-9:00 arrangement and the Valjoux 7750 is an exception (although rearrangements of that movement are also rife). And you may well run into other problems.....

    Good luck!

    Hartmut Richter

  8. #7
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    Re: Movement question

    Quote Originally Posted by Hartmut Richter
    I agree with Daddel Virks that the most significant difference ist the fact that one is a chronograph, the other a "three hand automatic watch with date function". There are some other, more subtle differences as well, though. The Valjoux 7750 only winds the automatic system in one direction whereas the ETA 2824 is bidirectional winding. This makes the 7750 a little more robust but will increase the time needed to wind it up fully. There is a great debate going on in the watch world, as to whether uni- or bidirectional winding is better - some argue that on the weinder, the uni-directionals are worse but they perform equally well or better on the wrist since the watch is subjected to slighter movements and most bi-directionals have to overcome friction in the reversing system first, but I will leave the final decision in that debate to the experts. The other thing I could mention is that the Valjoux was designed with robustness in mind - a simple tractor! - just as was the ETA 2824, but in the more complicated 7750, this is at the expense of service-friendliness. There is one spring in the chronograph mechanism in particular which is an absolute pig to reinstall during assembly. This could make the service bill for a Valjoux a little higher than that for another lever chronograph of comparative complexity (e.g. ETA 2894 or some of the Lemania movements).

    Hartmut Richter
    Thanks for clearing things out. The 2894 sounds very interresting. I must say that this forum is one of the best! I could spend hours here.


    The movement I have now is a miyota os30

    here is a pdf of it http://www.citizen.co.jp/miyota_mvt/.../draw_0s30.pdf

    The height of that movement is only 4,13 mm. (might be a problem)

    The watch case I have is quite big, and I hope there are a lot of spacers.. if thats the case then it wouldn't be any problem.. Altough it might still be a problem for the new movement to fit the dial..

    Say that I find the perfect movement to my watch. Does anyone know how much a watchmaker charges to change a movement in a watch?

    I don't dought that the os30 is reliable, but the feeling of an automatic watch is something different . Maybe a hand wound may fit the case better? They are not that thick.

  9. #8
    Member Daddel Virks's Avatar
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    Re: Movement question

    You can buy a very good robust Seiko or Citizen automatic for less than the experiment you are considering.
    The movement may not be as precise as an ETA 2824, but just as tough.
    Look in at te Seiko/Citizen/Oriënt forum for lots of info.

    Cheers,

    Daddel.
    Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!

  10. #9
    Zenith Forum Co-moderator
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    Re: Movement question

    I think that you would have problems even fitting a manual chronograph movement to replace a 4.13mm Miyota movement! On top of all the other potential problems, plus the price factor....

    I agree with Daddel Virks - just get a new, cheap automatic (or manual) mechanical chronograph - it will be cheaper and in the long term keep its value better since it all started life as one piece!

    Hartmut Richter

  11. #10
    Member georges zaslavsky's Avatar
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    Re: Movement question

    If you want a really durable and caccurate chrono go for a lemania 5100 which is very complete and highly accurate it is also of much higher quality than the basic 7750.
    Omega the sign of Excellence since 1848. Jaeger Le Coultre Horlogerie de Luxe depuis 1833
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