A newbie question about CSOC

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  1. #1
    EAD
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    A newbie question about CSOC

    Hi, can someone explain me more about CSOC? What does it mean for the watch? I know it means that it being tested for a longer time and need to keep accurate time of +8 or -6, but what more?
    and also, why does it cost so much? why does the same watch with CSOC can cost up to 1000$ more? what is so expnsive there?
    and also, Is it worth it these days? does it make any different for the watch?

  2. #2
    Member XTrooper's Avatar
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    Re: A newbie question about CSOC

    Wrong forum.

    P.S.- Google is your friend. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COSC
    Steve

    My favorite diver? Jessica Alba, of course!

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    Re: A newbie question about CSOC

    I will probably get it all wrong, but IMO COSC certification does not mean much. A decent mid-end movement can perform to within the COSC spec. as the tolerances are not that high.

    Over 1 million watches are tested each year, and one manufacturer - Rolex - submits almost two thirds of the watches that achieve COS certification:

    http://www.timezone.com/library/wbor...33384647656250

    My opinion, right or wrong, is that it is largely a marketing exercise. The COSC certification is a very visible way for Rolex to prove to Joe Public that they produce 'superlative chronometers'.

    I also remember reading statements from Patek Phillippe about how much time they spend making sure that a tourbillon is within COSC spec.

    From what I have read, a decent watchmaker can regulate most watches to attain good accuracy, assuming a decent movement.

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  5. #4
    EAD
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    Re: A newbie question about CSOC

    So, why does the CSOC is still avalible today? and why is it so expensive?

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    Re: A newbie question about CSOC

    Quote Originally Posted by EAD View Post
    So, why does the CSOC is still avalible today? and why is it so expensive?
    it's not neccessarily that the CSOC is expensive, it is that with CSOC a watch manufacturer can charge a premium.

    it's part "certification", part "authentication" and a healthy dose of "marketing hype".

    it is something for which a watch manufacturer can point to and say "we have this" and "these other watches/brands/models don't!" and "that's why ours are more expensive, because we have what they don't"

    it also has to do with demand and the consumer. only a small percentage of the total is CSOC and so, for those that demand CSOC, they are at a disadvantage... if the consumer were not willing to pay a premium for CSOC, then first you'd see prices drop on CSOC and then you'd see less CSOC certificates issued overall, because it would cease to add-value from the consumer perspective. although, i hold no illusions that this would happen anytime soon. there are plenty of people with the money and the passion to keep CSOC alive for quite some time. :)

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    Member lysanderxiii's Avatar
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    Re: A newbie question about CSOC

    A decent mid-end movement can perform to within the COSC spec. as the tolerances are not that high.
    Not true.

    The positional variation are tighter for COSC certified movements. Most middle-grade movements still cannot reliably hold these tolerances on a production run. The rate and temperature requirements can be held by most mid-grade movements.

    The time and manpower requirements to test the movements accounts for some of the additional cost.

    My opinion, right or wrong, is that it is largely a marketing exercise.
    My opinion also, a middle-grade movement, even with its poorer positional performance, is sufficient for 98% of the people that need to know what time it is.

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    EAD
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    Re: A newbie question about CSOC

    What I don't understand is why do we need this ?
    Why can't each brand has its own tests and then publish them and tell us how much accurate it is? and if they want a standard then maybe they should make like ISO 9000 or whatever
    I just think that for the more price it is, it isn't well worth it - maybe it is all come down to Swis vs Japan and other watch brands

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    Re: A newbie question about CSOC

    Quote Originally Posted by EAD View Post
    What I don't understand is why do we need this ?
    Why can't each brand has its own tests and then publish them and tell us how much accurate it is? and if they want a standard then maybe they should make like ISO 9000 or whatever
    I just think that for the more price it is, it isn't well worth it - maybe it is all come down to Swis vs Japan and other watch brands
    i guess i don't really understand the question. you don't need this. millions of watches are sold to satisfied customers every day that have no CSOC rating.

    but people want it.

    that is the difference.

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    EAD
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    Re: A newbie question about CSOC

    Quote Originally Posted by rawlus® View Post
    i guess i don't really understand the question. you don't need this. millions of watches are sold to satisfied customers every day that have no CSOC rating.

    but people want it.

    that is the difference.
    Yep that what I meant !
    So why is the watch industry go by this? why not let people choose what best for them with out the COSC standard ? Why don't the make a new standard that each company can test on their own with less cost?

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    Re: A newbie question about CSOC

    Quote Originally Posted by EAD View Post
    Yep that what I meant !
    So why is the watch industry go by this? why not let people choose what best for them with out the COSC standard ? Why don't the make a new standard that each company can test on their own with less cost?
    if each company were to sponsor their own standard - then it's no longer a standard. so that's one thing.

    the other is that by using CSOC, many watch manufacturers are able to charge a higher price for their goods, which is good for them - so why would they want to deviate?

    "swiss made" is kind of like this in some ways - there's real value there, and there is false value there. the false value is the marketing machine behind swiss made that artifically inflates the price of the watch despite objective measures... people assign a "worth" to swiss made without consideration for any other factor. and again - timepieces are available that are not swiss made that still perform to a very high standard for all but the purists.

    but part of being a collector of anything is in assigning worth and value to seemingly-intangible qualities. that's where the whole "passion" for collecting comes in. delving into the minutae and evaluating the value of one component against another, one maker against another, one factory against another, one owner against another and whether it was made during a prime-numbered year or whether it's a limited edition and therefore, the one you are passionate about is priceless in your eyes and you're content with your purchase and you're now looking for the next one and so on and so on......

    to put it another way - CSOC is something that allows many watchmakers to set themselves apart from the mass quantities and associate themselves favorably with their competitors as something that is "betterer" than the avg watch in some way that may only be meaningful to a very small percentage of the marketplace - but a very influential part nonetheless...

    CSOC also has validity and is a legitimate "stamp of approval" which is very important in the larger scheme of things for many brands from a brand presentation, heritage, validity, accountability point of view.

    it's like the Good Housekeeping seal of approval or the Underwriters Laboratories UL listing - they're all part marketing, part science - mutually-beneficial.

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