please help identify borgel movement

Thread: please help identify borgel movement

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  1. #1
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    please help identify borgel movement

    Hi i wonder if anyone could help identify the movement please ,this was description from seller.any help or advise would be great thank you.
    A rare Francois Bogel cased solid silver WW1 Officers Trench Wrist Watch (I say "officers" as the cost of such an item would preclude ownership by most "Tommy's"). The solid silver case clearly bears the mark of the Genevan case maker Francois Bogel and the sponsor mark of George Stockwell with the sponsorship number 286280620. It also carries the silver assay mark for London and the date mark 1912. The movement is signed "Swiss Made & 15 Jewels". The white enamel face is in super condition. The only negative is a very small defect to the glass near the numeral 5....... It is very small and I have tried to photograph it. The watch winds and runs nicely. It does need a strap but these are relatively inexpensive and are a matter of personal choice so I have left the watch strapless. The watch will be securely packaged and sent via insured recorded delivery. Thank you for looking.

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  2. #2
    Member little big feather's Avatar
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    Re: please help identify borgel movement

    BEWARE OF E-BAY WATCHES!!
    Be careful you can find allot of "rare" fakes on the web....Many from Russia....They have a thriving industry.
    Good luck
    Any watches posted may be seen as gifts,borrowed or found property and not as personal property of Little Big Feather.

  3. #3
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    Re: please help identify borgel movement

    I spoke to seller and asked could this one be fake ,the reply i had( 'Hi. I'm at a loss to know what they are saying. I had it examined by a reputable jeweller in my area who had no qualms and identified all the marks for me) i would like to get this sort any other help advise please ?

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  5. #4
    Moderator at Large stuffler,mike's Avatar
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    Re: please help identify borgel movement

    If so the jeweller should also be able to identify the movement.
    Kind regards
    Mike


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  6. #5
    Administrator CMSgt Bo's Avatar
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    Re: please help identify borgel movement

    Quote Originally Posted by thom67 View Post
    I spoke to seller and asked could this one be fake ,the reply i had( 'Hi. I'm at a loss to know what they are saying. I had it examined by a reputable jeweller in my area who had no qualms and identified all the marks for me) i would like to get this sort any other help advise please ?
    There you have it, the seller said it's real...case closed.

    As for the movement, no idea what it is but it sure looks good for a 95 year-old watch.

  7. #6
    Member Ray MacDonald's Avatar
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    Re: please help identify borgel movement

    In most situations like this the best you can do is identify the approximate age from the case markings, assuming the case is original. A great many Swiss movements made in the early 20th century cannot be IDd. The movement seems authentic enough as 15J was the standard back then.
    As to its military significance, only provenance would prove that one way or the other.
    Last edited by Ray MacDonald; October 14th, 2013 at 22:26.

    There are fathers who do not love their children; there is no grandfather who does not adore his grandson. ~ Victor Hugo

  8. #7
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    Re: please help identify borgel movement

    Thank you all for help and advise ,

  9. #8
    Member Noam the Newt's Avatar
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    Re: please help identify borgel movement

    It looks very good to me. I very much doubt that it is a 'fake.' Though I'm not an expert, I have been buying and selling WWI-era wrist watches for a short while now, and have learned from a few mistakes. One thing I would perhaps ask for (which are not present in the photographs you have posted) are for actual images of the silver hallmarks, the GS/FB hallmarks and the assay/date year hallmarks, as proof. That is, only if you have reason to doubt the seller. I do not really believe that the seller would lie about this information in the description, so I would be inclined to think it is fine.

    A second thing you have to think about is the fact that due to being almost 100 years, parts (either significant or insignificant) may not be original. There is the possibility that the dial may be a replacement, because it is quite rare that such a flawless enamel dial would have lasted these years without scratches, chips or cracks. The hands too could easily be replacements. That said, these are things which would not bother me too much if they were reflected in the price.

    Sorry I have no idea about the movement, other than the fact that it is probably a generic, unbranded one. Looks decent condition to me.

    *Edit* I also think you would have 100% more luck posting this in the 'Vintage & Pocket Watch' segment of these forums; the experts that dwell there will do much to elucidate your queries.
    Last edited by Noam the Newt; October 15th, 2013 at 17:18.

  10. #9
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    Re: please help identify borgel movement

    Thank you for your reply ,all hallmarks and case stamps are in the case and clearly marked ,it was only the movement i was unsure about ,it is 15 jewels ,overcoil balance ,it the vwc marked on the movement i could not find any info on .it was £117 included postage ,thank you for all advise ,i will now use it and enjoy it regards

  11. #10
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    Re: please help identify borgel movement

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