Question on the No Replica Policy (Hear me out)
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  1. #1
    Member Drewdoog's Avatar
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    Off Topic post Question on the No Replica Policy (Hear me out)

    Im a car and watch guy. I see posts on the dozen or so car forums I belong to talking about kit/replicar/homage/oem .... everyday. My question is, when does a car or watch become a fake/replica?
    The Lamborghini Aventador is basically a Murcielago with sideburns. If someone owns a Murci, and does a complete custom body/interior, is that a fake? The major drive train is the same but they dont sport an OEM body. (so many cars like that) Mercedes SLR/SLS AMG for example.
    Many one-off cars share the same components but arent considered replicas. They are deemed customs.
    Say I source a 321 cal movement from an Omega seamaster, the case of an speedmaster is handmade/custom, and a 3rd party speedmaster face made by a restorer were combined, would this be a replica? Thats probably 50% OEM.
    Would a Rolex Submariner with an original face and case, but a custom movement be considered a fake/replica?
    Is a replica for most people considered 0% oem, and 100% handmade? How much of the OEM gear does it take before something is a replica?

    If this question has been answered, mods, im gonna lie and say I tried search, but at this point of the night, its getting pretty hard to read.
    pqlmilty and r00t61 like this.

  2. #2
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    Re: Question on the No Replica Policy (Hear me out)

    Generally I think people believe the only thing that isn't a replica is something purchased 100% complete in it's original intended condition made by original manufacturer of the design. Factory authorized service and changes of parts always maintain legitimacy but may detract from collectible value.

    Modifications after purchase to the user's taste are universally acceptable amongst enthusiasts though not always enjoyed.

    Combining any manner of parts to recreate the original is generally considered a replica. Further, many believe a lot of "homages" that are essentially copies of classics with different branding are also replicas in a sense and they avoid them.

    I agree in general with those traditional sentiments I've read. You either bought an original or you didn't.
    Last edited by easyP; July 19th, 2015 at 06:34.
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    Member mleok's Avatar
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    Re: Question on the No Replica Policy (Hear me out)

    I think the relevant principle behind whether a watch is authentic or fake is whether it started off an authentic watch, this is consistent with how one might approach Theseus's paradox.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

    No amount of OEM components added to a fake watch will render it authentic.


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  5. #4
    Member Drewdoog's Avatar
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    Re: Question on the No Replica Policy (Hear me out)

    So what 'factors' consider it to be a fake watch? I new crystal because you cant see the face? I new face due to condensation?

  6. #5
    Member tinknocker's Avatar
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    Re: Question on the No Replica Policy (Hear me out)

    This is a good read, but only his opinion.

    worn&wound | Homage vs. Replica vs. Counterfeit
    Always give a word or a sign of salute when meeting or passing a friend, even a stranger, when in a lonely place. Show respect to all people and grovel to none.

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    Re: Question on the No Replica Policy (Hear me out)

    To me there are various different things

    An original watch with all of it's componen unchanged since it has been bought: original
    An original watch with some parts that have been changed with more recent/aftermarket ones during it's lifetime: authentic (but with less value than a 100% original)
    An original watch that has been "modded" by changing some of it's components with ones from other manufacturers or not intended for this model: Franken

    A watch from another company borrowing some (or a lot of) designs elements but sold under its name: Hommage
    A watch from another company identical to a model from a more expensive manufacturer, bearing the name of the original one: Counterfeit/replica/fake


    ​my 2ct

    EDIT: changed original to authentic for watches with OEM replacement part after pastawatcher suggestion
    Last edited by Gymno-pediste; July 23rd, 2015 at 17:17.

  8. #7
    28A
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    Re: Question on the No Replica Policy (Hear me out)

    A watch put together from a movement here, a dial there.. case from that guy.. hands from that other place.. are often referred to as "frankenwatches" for obvious reasons.
    Nick.

    Divers - June 1977 Seiko 6309-7040 Quartz Hybrid | March 1978 Seiko 7548-700H (Orange Dial) in a 6309-7040 case | February 1972 Seiko 6105-8110 | Seiko 7548 "Tuna" TST | October 1985 Seiko H558-5000 "Arnie" | Scurfa Stainless Steel.

    Chronographs - July 1972 Seiko 6139-6005 (True Pogue).

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    Re: Question on the No Replica Policy (Hear me out)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gymno-pediste View Post
    To me there are various different things

    An original watch with all of it's componen unchanged since it has been bought: original
    An original watch with some parts that have been changed with more recent/aftermarket ones during it's lifetime: original (but with less value)
    An original watch that has been "modded" by changing some of it's components with ones from other manufacturers or not intended for this model: Franken

    A watch from another company borrowing some (or a lot of) designs elements but sold under its name: Hommage
    A watch from another company identical to a model from a more expensive manufacturer, bearing the name of the original one: Counterfeit/replica/fake


    ​my 2ct
    Knockoff is the correct name.
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  10. #9
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    Re: Question on the No Replica Policy (Hear me out)

    If it's a Rolex it should be 100% Rolex parts and made by Rolex! And so on.

    I hear what you are saying about kit cars etc, but the problem comes when my replica Porsche 356 by Chesil is badged as a 356 and sold as one.

    This is what makes buying a Rolex or Panerai so dangerous when not bought from a reputable source with box and papers.

    And this is why the mods and long termers on here get so twitchy about the guy who starts his one and only thread "is this a fake? And if so exactly what is wrong with it?"

    Because chances are if it passes the test on here it will be on E bay the week after as a gen watch.
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  11. #10
    cpl
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    Question on the No Replica Policy (Hear me out)

    Even a watch made of 100% original parts could be considered a franken if it didn't leave the factory in that way. There are shades of grey though eg. An original watch with the bezel or dial replaced can still be considered original. If you push it further and have a case from one watch, a movement from another, dial, hands from another etc that is a franken.

    To me the distinction between a franken and a modified watch: a franken tries to pass as an original, a mod is the opposite - it is distinctly different and in no way tries to be original.

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    Last edited by cpl; July 19th, 2015 at 14:04.
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