self sabotaging brands
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  1. #1
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    self sabotaging brands

    The recent long thread debating the merits of Raymond Weil got me to wondering about other possibly perfectly good brands that are producing watches that punch above their perceived brands weight.

    For instance the RW nabucco chrono is often described as being one of the best built, highest quality watches that their owners have come across. Despite this, their cheaper quartz offerings, the fact that they often discount as well as their positioning in stores that are perhaps a bit below their ambitions as a lux brand (and plain predjudice in my opinion) have led to an unfavourable brand image and people who accept the quality, love the design and wanting a particular RW watches features often rejecting them out of hand.

    I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on other brands that have produced great watches that have simply been ignored or not gotten their due because of other watches in that brands line up tarnishing them by assosciation or other marketing / positioning issues leading to them falling by the wayside.

    Apart from the discomfort of hearing the RW brand bashing I couldn't be happier though, it allowed to get a DGCG chrono and dual time zone both under $950 second hand where equivalent watches from otherwise equivalent brands would have been well outside my price range.

    Which leads me to my final question, based on this self sabotage, what are some of the great value watches that would cost much more if they weren't ruined by the perception of the brand name on the box?
    Last edited by Phrenzy; January 3rd, 2013 at 03:48.

  2. #2
    Member Ray MacDonald's Avatar
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    Re: self sabotaging brands

    Bulova - especially vintage. They made great watches 50 years ago, easy to get repaired even today. I have some that are 75 years old that still work great. However most collectors think of them as a shlock brand nowadays.
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  3. #3
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    Re: self sabotaging brands

    You cant have this discussion without Seiko, specifically, Grand Seiko.
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  5. #4
    Member LesserBlackDog's Avatar
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    Re: self sabotaging brands

    Quote Originally Posted by ~tc~ View Post
    You cant have this discussion without Seiko, specifically, Grand Seiko.
    Yeah... Seiko is really sabotaging its reputation as a cheap, readily-available, everyman's watchmaker with those Grand Seikos.

  6. #5
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    Re: self sabotaging brands

    Um, i was going other way 'round - how many sales do they lose because GS says "Seiko" on it? Obviously, they have some grasp of the concept, because their super high end is called Credor. Just like Toyota to Lexus.

    I am sure the vast majority of non-WIS watch buying public would not give GS a second thought purely because of the name. Call it exactly opposite to Rolex, where non-WIS buy specifically BECAUSE of the name.
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  7. #6
    Member Likestheshiny's Avatar
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    Re: self sabotaging brands

    I am sure the vast majority of non-WIS watch buying public would not give GS a second thought purely because of the name.
    I'm sure that the majority of the non-WIS watch buyng public in the West would not give GS a second thought. Now, ask yourself, "How much does Seiko care whether the West is buying its watches?" For an easy answer, Google "Grand Seiko authorized dealer." There are not many. Seiko isn't trying to sell watches in the West, and therefore doesn't care what the West thinks.

    In Asia, the Grand Seikos are very much appreciated, even with "Seiko" right there on the dial like eight times. Seiko doesn't care what you think, they care what Asia thinks, and Asia thinks quite well of the brand.

  8. #7
    Member akit110's Avatar
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    self sabotaging brands

    Quote Originally Posted by Likestheshiny View Post
    I'm sure that the majority of the non-WIS watch buyng public in the West would not give GS a second thought. Now, ask yourself, "How much does Seiko care whether the West is buying its watches?" For an easy answer, Google "Grand Seiko authorized dealer." There are not many. Seiko isn't trying to sell watches in the West, and therefore doesn't care what the West thinks.

    In Asia, the Grand Seikos are very much appreciated, even with "Seiko" right there on the dial like eight times. Seiko doesn't care what you think, they care what Asia thinks, and Asia thinks quite well of the brand.
    I had heard on WUS that the younger generation in Asia prefer the high end Swiss marques like Rolex, Panerai, Patek etc. And that Grand Seiko is sometimes viewed as well-made but stodgy as in something ltheir parents would have bought. Sort of the way that younger Americans do not hold Cadillac in the same high estimation as their parents or grandparents in the US Is this true?
    Now: Rolex Explorer II ref. 1655, ca. 1971, Rolex Milgauss (black) ca. 2008, IWC GST Aquatimer (titanium) ref. 3536, ca. 1999, Omega dress watch (601 movement, 1960s, bought in 1966)
    Gone baby gone: Rolex Submariner ref. 5512, Rolex Submariner ref. 5513, Rolex GMT Master, Rolex Datejust, Rolex Air King (1st 'nice' watch), Hamilton Tank (10K vintage), IWC Mark XII ca. 1998,
    IWC Compass Watch ca. 1980 ref. 3510, JLC Memovox (ca. 1965), Omega Moonwatch (30th anniversary), Omega Seamaster (552 movement, 1960s), Omega Seamaster Multifunction, Seiko Marinemaster 300m ref SBDX001 (2007), UTS 500m (platinum dial)

  9. #8
    Member portauto's Avatar
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    Re: self sabotaging brands

    Audemars Piguet

    They've senselessly promoted countless limited edition and very garish AP Royal Oak Offshores to sports players. Meanwhile, their Jules Audemars pieces and other collections tend to go entirely unnoticed.

    Kindest Regards,
    Portauto
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  10. #9
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    Re: self sabotaging brands

    Quote Originally Posted by portauto View Post
    Audemars Piguet

    They've senselessly promoted countless limited edition and very garish AP Royal Oak Offshores to sports players. Meanwhile, their Jules Audemars pieces and other collections tend to go entirely unnoticed.

    Kindest Regards,
    Portauto
    Forgive the newbie question, or my inability to read between the lines. But are you suggesting marketing to sports players as a poor choice for the brand?

  11. #10
    Member Synequano's Avatar
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    Re: self sabotaging brands

    The problem with AP is,they make too much(really expensive)athlete exclusive ROO,most (not all) of the exclusive are (IMO) too colorful and gaudy,thus making the non-WIS see the brand as kitschy (kinda like hublot) though the classical models offered by AP are really nice,even the classic RO looks quite nice..
    I see Hublot gone this path as well,their older mdm model looks nice and simple,especially when you compare it to their current line up of big bangs,zebra bangs and some other bangs that I can't bother to remember..
    ljb187 and shnjb like this.

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