Sistem51 movements now in Tissots?
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  1. #1
    Member Deity42's Avatar
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    Sistem51 movements now in Tissots?

    Sistem Tissot? Swiss Mechanicals at Quartz Prices - Worn & Wound

    Interesting.

    Article says Tissot claims this version was specifically designed for them, but it appears to be a 51 with a metal rotor instead of the clear one Swatch uses. Even the date wheel font looks familiar.

    $400 for a leather strap puts them right in the middle of a $200 Sistem51 Irony w/leather and Tissot's entry levels models (like the Visodate) that have "proper" ETA automatics in the $600 ballpark.

    I think it's unfortunate the "Swissmatic" designs are exceptionally plain and derivative, looking exactly like a Daniel Wellington or a Timex Weekender. As such, you're essentially paying $200 over a Swatch Irony simply for the convenience of normal watch case lugs and a sapphire crystal. It doesn't look like the Tissot cases are designed to be opened either.
    Last edited by Deity42; October 10th, 2017 at 18:15.
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    Re: Sistem51 movements now in Tissots?

    A gentleman in this thread says the movement also has a higher beat rate, all metal components, and it hacks. Even more interesting.

    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f62/new...a-4173914.html

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    Re: Sistem51 movements now in Tissots?

    Interesting. Metal components, a higher beat rate, and yet still welded (and, I suppose, regulated by laser) so servicing is impossible.

    I'm not sure where Tissot is going with this. I was more supportive of their move to silicon balance springs in the sub-$1,000 Powermatic 80 range. I like that sense of democratising features normally found only in more expensive watches. And whilst I think that's what Swatch also did with the Sistem51, I'm not sure that I'd say the same for a $600 Tissot with a modified Sistem51 movement.
    Last edited by Tom-HK; October 10th, 2017 at 22:40.
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    Re: Sistem51 movements now in Tissots?

    Glad you posted this. I just noticed the Tissot Swissmatic and was gonna ask the Forum about it.

    Looking at the pics it looked like the System51.

    Like you all I am wondering where they go with this. I just noticed it here:
    Tissot T-Classic Everytime Swissmatic T109.407.11.052.00 T1094071105200 Men's Watch

    but for about $300.

    I hope they lower the price a bit and start competing with $200-$300 Seikos.

    I agree, though, that the offerings so far are very plain, and overpriced. For much less (or the same $400) you can get a REALLY GOOD Seiko automatic or much more stylish watch from many other places. I feel Tissot should be more aggressive with these and take more chances in style. Less DW or Michael Kors looking and more of a daring Swiss avant grade, or better yet Art Deco designs!

    Let's get some cool automatic art deco designs back into watch making. It's been a century, let's bring back art deco...

    Just my 2-and-a-half cents
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    Re: Sistem51 movements now in Tissots?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deity42 View Post
    A gentleman in this thread says the movement also has a higher beat rate, all metal components, and it hacks. Even more interesting.
    To get the facts straight about the C15.111 (Tissot "swissmatic"):

    - 3Hz / 21600 alt/h.
    - synthetic escapement
    - NO hacking feature

    There's no servicing for these Swissmatic movements. They're junked, and a NEW one goes in the watch. One has to see it as a spare part; like a new gasket, a new crown, etc.

    BTW, Tissot never service "your" movement in your watch. Another reconditioned movement is used then. The old movement (7750, 2836 etc) goes in a servicing line to be refreshed, for another watch.

    That's why the service prices are quite low.
    Last edited by Deli; October 12th, 2017 at 10:49.

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    Re: Sistem51 movements now in Tissots?

    The more I think about it, the more I don't really like it at all. I think from Swatch Group's point of view, it makes sense, as it allows them to fill a gap, and make more use of the technology they've invested in.

    Perhaps because I've come to associate Sistem51 with Swatch. From everything I read and understand about it, it is an innovative method of constructing a new type of mechanical watch movement, innovation that I think is good and worth pursuing, especially when it seems like in the watch world, most of that innovation occurs at the top of the market, not the bottom. But ultimately, I think I've always perceived Sistem51 as being above all, economical, and due to it's unserviceable nature, perfect for and in-line with Swatch.

    I think I have a firm grasp on what a "Swatch customer" looks like (looks like me, lol). I certainly have admired various Tissots, considered buying a Visodate for awhile, but I don't really know what a "Tissot customer" looks like, or what they're ultimately seeking in a wrist-watch. Again it makes sense to introduce it at the bottom of Tissot's line up, since the Sistem51 Irony is the top of Swatch's line up...but I don't know how I would feel buying one. I don't know what sells the Tissot. In the Swatch, the Swatch customer, accustomed to quartz, is getting "mechanical innovation." The Tissot customer is getting "this is the cheapest mechanical movement ETA could engineer."
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    Re: Sistem51 movements now in Tissots?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deity42 View Post
    I don't know what sells the Tissot. In the Swatch, the Swatch customer, accustomed to quartz, is getting "mechanical innovation." The Tissot customer is getting "this is the cheapest mechanical movement ETA could engineer."
    Partially.

    The target is a customer potentially interested in a 300€ mechanical Swiss Made watch, with a "refined" ( ) case, especially if it's a trendy hip chic DW lookalike.

    Cross-selling with the nato straps is well thought, as well, since these straps do generate a huge profit: the customer goes for 1 watch, and spends 50€ more on 2 natos. That's 15% more than expected.

    The WIS is not the marketing target, definitely.

    150-200€ --> swatch auto
    250- sub 400--> tissot swissmatic
    >400 --> tissot visodate or something hamilton branded


    EDIT: before this latest design, think about the cheapest auto model they had, the carson jungfrau:

    Name:  img61560770.jpg
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    Hmm, that reminds me of something...
    Last edited by Deli; October 12th, 2017 at 19:56.
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  9. #8
    Member Tom-HK's Avatar
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    Re: Sistem51 movements now in Tissots?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deli View Post
    To get the facts straight about the C15.111 (Tissot "swissmatic"):

    - 3Hz / 21600 alt/h.
    - synthetic escapement
    - NO hacking feature
    Not out to contest your info at all - I'm genuinely interested in knowing the true specs of this movement. With that in mind, could you share the source of these details? I've Googled it but come up with nothing.
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    Re: Sistem51 movements now in Tissots?

    Sure, it comes from eta :

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  11. #10
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    Re: Sistem51 movements now in Tissots?

    Thanks. I didn't think to check the ETA site.

    It's interesting (though not entirely without precedent) to note that a number of media reports to date have got the specs wrong.

    Edit: the spec that interests me most is the "synthetic escape". The Sistem51 (C10111) had a synthetic balance wheel and a metal balance spring. The spec for the C15.111 isn't entirely clear but on first reading it does seem to suggest a synthetic balance spring (making an entirely synthetic escapement). This would be most extraordinary in a watch at this price point.
    Last edited by Tom-HK; October 12th, 2017 at 20:22.
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